2row instead of pilsner for kolsch?

if i brew a kolsch with 2row instead of pilsner.....will there a big noticble taste difference? if so, how much? im asking if i decide to buy 2row in bulk then use that for when i brew the kolsch(would still use kolsch yeast though_

I think it would be pretty noticeable since there is so little specialty malt in a kolsch. It won’t be a bad beer, it just won’t have the classic kolsch malt profile.

I know a guy that brewed a Kolsch with US 2-row instead of pilsner malt. He won first place in the Brewmasters Open (Alpharetta, GA). It is was an excellent Kolsch.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/neals-kolsch-119739/

If you were brewing for a competition, I would probably have suggested against it noting the points Oldsock mentioned but it is obvious from Neal's experience that is not always the case.

Molson Golden is not a Kolsch.

both are good though

I would not use standard 2-row pale for a Kölsch. Like the other poster said, it won't be bad, but it won't be a true Kölsch either. The pils gives that correct malty flavor and crispness that Kölschs are known for. 90-95% of a grain bill for a Kölsch should be pils.

Technically, if it's not brewed in Cologne region, it's not a Kolsch...

You'll still make beer.

my main question is not wether it will be in style or if itll be good. my question is will it be a big flavor difference using the 2row instead of the pils? i brewed a batch with the pils, and now if i brew a batch with the 2row....will it taste like 2 completly different beers? or will it be like coke verus pepsi, some can tell the difference but most really cant

Isn't that part of the fun of brewing, being able to experiment?

No, it will not taste like the same beer you made with pils. Why not try a batch and compare the two to get an understanding of how the base malts affect flavor?

you think i should try adding alittle sugar to the recipe to get in alittle more dry and crisp like pilsner?

I had Alaskan Brewing companies summer kolsch and really enjoyed it especially since I thought i didn't really like the style. I like it enough to email them asking for more details than their site gives but haven't heard a pepe in a few weeks.

At any rate, they say that they use 2-row on their website.

Alaskan Brewing Company - Our Brew - Alaskan Summer Ale
Ingredients:
Alaskan Summer Ale is made from glacier-fed water and a generous blend of European and Pacific Northwest hop varieties and premium two-row and specialty malts. Our water originates in the 1,500 square-mile Juneau Ice Field and from the more than 90 inches of rainfall Juneau receives each year.



So maybe if we all join in and email them for the recipe, they will give in

bkov said:

you think i should try adding alittle sugar to the recipe to get in alittle more dry and crisp like pilsner?

Click to expand...

No.

Mash low and use a quality Kolsch yeast, pitch the proper amount of yeast, and oxygenate well, that will get it dry.

I usually brew my Kolsch with almost 100% us 2-row as I always have 2-row on hand, but not always German Pilsner malt. There IS a difference, but it is still a great beer. Don't worry about it and just give it a shot.

I definitely think it will be different because the pils malt has a higher sulfur content and the Kolsch flavor largely comes from that sulfery background note like you find in a lager. It will still be good though. Maybe call it a blonde ale.

Saccharomyces said:

I definitely think it will be different because the pils malt has a higher sulfur content and the Kolsch flavor largely comes from that sulfery background note like you find in a lager. It will still be good though. Maybe call it a blonde ale.

Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that sulfur notes comes primarily from the yeast. I could be wrong but I do not think the malt will contribute and sulfur-like tastes/aromas with the exception of DMS.

You'd be brewing a Blonde, not a Koelsch. But that doesn't mean it won't taste good.

ArcaneXor said:

You'd be brewing a Blonde, not a Koelsch. But that doesn't mean it won't taste good.

Click to expand...

I disagree. IMO, a beer style is an end results and an end result only. If you can use US 2-row to make a beer that tastes like a Kolsch from Cologne, then it is a Kolsch.

(Obviously, there are legal obligations on what can be called a Kolsch, that is not what I am talking about here, just the style.)

ArcaneXor said:

You'd be brewing a Blonde, not a Koelsch. But that doesn't mean it won't taste good.

Click to expand...

The fact that he has chosen to use the Kölsch yeast is more important than the grain bill, IMO. According to the BJCP guidelines for 6C, ingredients listed are:

German noble hops (Hallertau, Tettnang, Spalt or Hersbrucker). German Pils or pale malt. Attenuative, clean ale yeast. Up to 20% wheat may be used, but this is quite rare in authentic versions. Water can vary from extremely soft to moderately hard. Traditionally uses a step mash program, although good results can be obtained using a single rest at 149°F. Fermented at cool ale temperatures (59-65°F) and lagered for at least a month, although many Cologne brewers ferment at 70°F and lager for no more than two weeks.

Click to expand...

As Beerrific said earlier, I brewed a Kolsch using only 2-row because it was all that I had on hand, no other reason that that. If I would have had any pils then I would have used that. Nevertheless, the beer turned out very nicely and I wouldn't hesitate to brew it again.

In my opinion the yeast pitch rate and fermentation temperatures are more important than whether you use pils or 2-row.

That said, if you are brewing this strictly for a competition then I would probably go with the pils.

I brewed a kolsch not too long ago, and I mixed half and half US 2 row and pilsner malt. No specialty malts, just a touch of vienna malt along with the base. It won a first place in the First Coast Cup in FL, and a 3rd place BOS. The pilsner malt flavor was commented on by the judges.
I think the most important thing is to keep the fermentation temp low, no higher than 60, and that should help give you the most characteristic Kolsch flavor.
Now if you're using UK 2-row, it might be a bit more off the mark.

Cheers

The answer is the malt will not make the most difference. Kolsch could be made with German Pale Ale malt of Pils. American 2 row is somewhere in between. Kolsch is characterized by the use of a sinlge type of malt, no carmel, etc. like American Pale Ale. The hops is important, if you put a lot of very bitter hops it won't matter what malt you use-- it won't taste like kolsch. Has to be German hops and German hopping. Use German hops, 1.5 oz bittering, .5 oz at 10min. American style hops or hopping will ruin it. It won't taste like kolsch. Then the other factor is colder fermenting temp and very cool conditioning temp. If you can lager it all the better. If brewed at warm temp and not conditioned at cool temp it won't taste like kolsch no matter what malt you use. If you don't use German Hops and hopping it won't taste like kolsch no matter what malt you use.

I have brewed kolsch with American 2 row, Pils, German Pale Ale malt. Any light malt is fine. No dark malt though, no specialty malt except Carapils for body.

So use American two row but use German hops, yeast, and German brewing methods and you can get a good kolsch.

There is a grain out there called Global Kolsch Malt. Not sure if it's just a different form of malt of pilsener malt, or an entirely new malt... Check it out.

"Produced in Cologne, Germany, making this THE malt to use for Kolsch beer.
Mild and sweet in flavor and aroma. It is malted specifically for one style,
but can be used for a variety of German or American Lagers."
Use up to 100% - Avg. Lovibond: 3