Casey Anthony - not guilty

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Looked it up, he was convicted for statements made at Grand Jury. Grand Jury proceedings are not subject to the same protections because the defendant actually has no right to testify in the GRand Jury, they can only request to testify if they want to, which most defense attorneys will not allow defendants to do for obvious reasons. Witnesses are not entitled to immunity from GJ testimony either.

You absolutely cannot be re-tried for lying when defending yourself at trial though.
 
passedpawn said:
So, what's the alternative? He chooses not to represent the defendant? Noone defends her? The courts just hang her? What are you proposing as an alternative to the way our justice system works now?
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The alternative is you do the crime you do the time. If a honest defense and an honest prosecution is presented to a jury then let them decide. We have gotten to the point where the legal system is more about winning a case than truth. I for one would hate to have a job defending someone I know is guilty of a crime.
 
^Is that according to Florida law, or NY law though?

Less progressive states, i.e. Florida, tend to have much simpler laws and court proceedings. Rule of thumb is, the less law schools there, the less convoluted the legal process is.
 
iaefebs said:
The alternative is you do the crime you do the time. If a honest defense and an honest prosecution is presented to a jury then let them decide. We have gotten to the point where the legal system is more about winning a case than truth. I for one would hate to have a job defending someone I know is guilty of a crime.
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Then don't go into criminal defense law. Simple as that. lol
 
RMitch said:
Then don't go into criminal defense law. Simple as that. lol
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I didn't and I quit the banking industry 35 years ago because I saw where it was headed. I also didn't get involved in organized crime, or start an online ministry. I don't make unsolicited phone calls or try to take advantage of senior citizens or any other number of jobs where I would have to lie to make a living.
 
If you believe media you will think shes guilty,i absolutuly cannot stand Nacy Grace.Its about attention and money.Sounds like she was being selfish and a bad mother but no evidence makes it hard to point fingers.Being looped out on drugs if she was wouldnt make it easy hence the lying.They couldnt even prove manslaughter.
 
If she is truly guilty she'll end up dead in a car accident next week, be shot and killed by some angry tv viewer who followed the trial, end up back in jail for armed robbery as a result of no one hiring her for a job, etc. Karma will work this one out
 
passedpawn said:
What are you proposing as an alternative to the way our justice system works now?
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a system where child killers or parents responsible for the death of their child go to prison? pay some sort of punishment?

Airborneguy said:
You absolutely cannot be re-tried for lying when defending yourself at trial though.
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really? is that really the case?

i understand double jeapordy, but if you lie, get away with it at the time, then evidence surfaces that you did, in fact, lie, there is absolutely no punishment? you can't be tried for perjury? isn't that a separate charge?

so....is there any reason (legal, that is) for NOT lying if you're caught?
 
motobrewer said:
a system where child killers or parents responsible for the death of their child go to prison? pay some sort of punishment?



really? is that really the case?

i understand double jeapordy, but if you lie, get away with it at the time, then evidence surfaces that you did, in fact, lie, there is absolutely no punishment? you can't be tried for perjury? isn't that a separate charge?

so....is there any reason (legal, that is) for NOT lying if you're caught?
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if there is an accidental death the parent or guardian should go to jail? the death of the child is not enough I guess.
 
uh, did someone "accidentally" duct tape her mouth and dump her body in the middle of freakin' nowhere?

yeah, the death of a child is enough...to go partying, get tattoos, etc...
 
motobrewer said:
uh, did someone "accidentally" duct tape her mouth and dump her body in the middle of freakin' nowhere?
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Was it 100% proven that that someone was her mom? You'd better be damn sure you know what you're talking about before you sentence someone else to death over it. If you're wrong, you too just killed an innocent person.
 
I think what is lost on jurors today is the concept of "reasonable" doubt. They seem to take it as "all" doubt. Huge difference. Is there a doubt that she was guilty. Sure. Was that doubt reasonable. No.
 
Ok yes i think it is horrible what happened to that little girl, But has anyone stopped to think that MAYBE just MAYBE she had nothing to do with any of it? Her Dad was a POLICE officer in Ohio, If anyone knows how to COVER up something and make it hard to prove what happened it would be him. I have a theory, Mind you it is just that a THEORY, I think it prolly went down something like this, the child fell in the pool, drown, and the father thinking that his daughter was going to go to jail for killing her little girl over an accident, stepped it, moved the body, covered up the evidence so that nothing could be proven.

Her behavior, while yes to an outsider may seem Evil,horrid,etc but who is to say that she wasn't doing everything she could to take her mind off the loss of her child? People do some strange things to deal with grief, and i am sure that she had plenty of that, even if she didn't act like it.

Clearly there was not enough of any kind of PROOF to get 12 people on a Jury to convict, and if you cant get a Jury with 7 women on it to convict a woman of killing her child, my gut says she didn't kill the child.

I mean they didn't even file charges against that teacher, i think it was in Texas, that FORGOT she didn't drop her baby off at the Sitter, and left the baby in a CLOSED UP CAR while she was inside teaching and they had PROOF that woman was guilty of Negligent Homicide!!! How do we decide which parent to put on trial and which one to just let slide on it? This woman just FORGOT her baby was in the car seat in the back of the car, went in to her job teaching and HOURS later someone else happened to notice that there was a dead baby in the back seat, and they didn't even TRY to file charges, i mean really?
 
This just goes to show that the world, at least the US, is going to hell in a hand basket, and it's happening very quickly.

I want to live somewhere where the justice system is an "eye for and eye", they don't seem to have as many problems in those places.
 
Native302 said:
This just goes to show that the world, at least the US, is going to hell in a hand basket, and it's happening very quickly.

I want to live somewhere where the justice system is an "eye for and eye", they don't seem to have as many problems in those places.
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Really. My family is from and lives in the middle east. You would like to get your hand cut off for stealing? Or if you talk against your government they kill you. Sounds much better huh? Wow, wake up dude.
 
Vance71975 said:
Ok yes i think it is horrible what happened to that little girl, But has anyone stopped to think that MAYBE just MAYBE she had nothing to do with any of it? Her Dad was a POLICE officer in Ohio, If anyone knows how to COVER up something and make it hard to prove what happened it would be him. I have a theory, Mind you it is just that a THEORY, I think it prolly went down something like this, the child fell in the pool, drown, and the father thinking that his daughter was going to go to jail for killing her little girl over an accident, stepped it, moved the body, covered up the evidence so that nothing could be proven.

Her behavior, while yes to an outsider may seem Evil,horrid,etc but who is to say that she wasn't doing everything she could to take her mind off the loss of her child? People do some strange things to deal with grief, and i am sure that she had plenty of that, even if she didn't act like it.

Clearly there was not enough of any kind of PROOF to get 12 people on a Jury to convict, and if you cant get a Jury with 7 women on it to convict a woman of killing her child, my gut says she didn't kill the child.

I mean they didn't even file charges against that teacher, i think it was in Texas, that FORGOT she didn't drop her baby off at the Sitter, and left the baby in a CLOSED UP CAR while she was inside teaching and they had PROOF that woman was guilty of Negligent Homicide!!! How do we decide which parent to put on trial and which one to just let slide on it? This woman just FORGOT her baby was in the car seat in the back of the car, went in to her job teaching and HOURS later someone else happened to notice that there was a dead baby in the back seat, and they didn't even TRY to file charges, i mean really?
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My theory as well. All very shady, but the prosecution messed up in presenting the case.

Really, murder 1? Come on. First degree murder must be premeditated... all they had was a search on chloroform. I look up sh*t worse than that everyday. So if a family member of mine dies, I guess I am screwed.
 
optimatored said:
Really. My family is from and lives in the middle east. You would like to get your hand cut off for stealing? Or if you talk against your government they kill you. Sounds much better huh? Wow, wake up dude.
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I think the point he was making was that Murderers,Rapist,Child Molesters etc, get way to light of a sentence, or get away with it completely when they should be punished more severely when proven guilty.

Personally, I have seen cases where a child molester had VIDEO footage of themselves molesting a child, and they got 5-10 years outta it, I personally think when there is PROOF like that, and NO question they are guilty, just take them outside the court house and shoot them. Or Rapist that Film themselves committing rape, ya just shoot them and call it a day.
 
optimatored said:
My theory as well. All very shady, but the prosecution messed up in presenting the case.

Really, murder 1? Come on. First degree murder must be premeditated... all they had was a search on chloroform. I look up sh*t worse than that everyday. So if a family member of mine dies, I guess I am screwed.
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Oh ya i have looked up some screwed up s**t on Google just to see what would pop up, i think a lot of people have. Doing a search on chloroform and actually getting your hands on chloroform are two very different things, and even if she did manage to buy chloroform somewhere, SOMEONE who seen all the headlines about her would have came forward about it. Or there would be a sales record, SOMETHING But the way it sounds, she spent 3 years of her life in jail for something she didn't do, i would be curious to see if she now sues the state for false imprisonment,considering she was found not guilty, i know i would!
 
Vance71975 said:
I think the point he was making was that Murderers,Rapist,Child Molesters etc, get way to light of a sentence, or get away with it completely when they should be punished more severely when proven guilty.

Personally, I have seen cases where a child molester had VIDEO footage of themselves molesting a child, and they got 5-10 years outta it, I personally think when there is PROOF like that, and NO question they are guilty, just take them outside the court house and shoot them. Or Rapist that Film themselves committing rape, ya just shoot them and call it a day.
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No doubt that some should receive a more harsh punishment (like DUI offenders/rapists...)... but an eye for an eye. Nope.
 
It is difficult, at best, to purchase chloroform as an individual. If you represent a school, university, or business/laboratory that legitimately uses this substance, you can shop at chemical supply sites such as science.com.
Keep in mind, though, that since the government restricts the purchase of chloroform to insure that it is used only for legitimate purposes, it might be tough to you get your hands on it. Even if you do, the penalty for possession in a federal court is severe!

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Where_you_can_buy_chloroform#ixzz1RKKiAH6e

So i HIGHLY doubt she was able to get it and use it on her child. And if she did, someone somewhere would have a record of the purchase.
 
optimatored said:
Really. My family is from and lives in the middle east. You would like to get your hand cut off for stealing? Or if you talk against your government they kill you. Sounds much better huh? Wow, wake up dude.
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First off STFU!

I love my country and have served in its Military for 13 years, 6 of those as an officer, with plans on serving 17 more, and have deployed to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Dubai, Quatar, U.A.E, and Afganistan. I know what those countries are like and what their people are like. I must say I like their simplistic ways of dealing with criminals compared to the justice system of this country. I have no reason to steal or stir trouble against foreign countries, but those who do/did should be punished. When I do retire I most likely will move out of country, but not to the middle east - I will agree with you on that.

Eye for an eye is my belief! You have your own belief and I have fought and still will fight for you to have that belief! Just don't jump on my A$$ cause we don't see eye to eye.

Cheers :mug:

Eye for an eye is what I see fit!
 
Native302 said:
First off STFU!

I love my country and have served in its Military for 13 years, 6 of those as an officer, with plans on serving 17 more, and have deployed to Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Kuwait, Dubai, Quatar, U.A.E, and Afganistan. I know what those countries are like and what their people are like. I must say I like their simplistic ways of dealing with criminals compared to the justice system of this country. I have no reason to steal or stir trouble against foreign countries, but those who do/did should be punished. When I do retire I most likely will move out of country, but not to the middle east - I will agree with you on that.

Eye for an eye is my belief! You have your own belief and I have fought and still will fight for you to have that belief! Just don't jump on my A$$ cause we don't see eye to eye.

Cheers :mug:

Eye for an eye is what I see fit!
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Fair enough. :mug:
 
Vance71975 said:
Oh ya i have looked up some screwed up s**t on Google just to see what would pop up, i think a lot of people have. Doing a search on chloroform and actually getting your hands on chloroform are two very different things, and even if she did manage to buy chloroform somewhere, who seen all the headlines about her would have came forward about it. Or there would be a sales record, But the way it sounds, she spent 3 years of her life in jail for something she didn't do, i would be curious to see if she now sues the state for false imprisonment,considering she was found not guilty, i know i would!
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Obviously you didn't look it up.
I had no idea until I did just how simple it is to make. I bet at least 50% of the homes in America have the ingredients and none would put on any kind of watch list.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
Obviously you didn't look it up.
I had no idea until I did just how simple it is to make. I bet at least 50% of the homes in America have the ingredients and none would put on any kind of watch list.
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yea, did the same... many homes would have what the ingredients.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
Obviously you didn't look it up.
I had no idea until I did just how simple it is to make. I bet at least 50% of the homes in America have the ingredients and none would put on any kind of watch list.
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How to make it no that i did not look up, but Buying it,is controlled. But i did just look it up and honestly, it does not look all that simple to make, Plus you would need to find a source for acetone, which i highly doubt simple finger nail polish remover would work considering the other chemicals in it.
 
Vance71975 said:
Ok yes i think it is horrible what happened to that little girl, But has anyone stopped to think that MAYBE just MAYBE she had nothing to do with any of it? Her Dad was a POLICE officer in Ohio, If anyone knows how to COVER up something and make it hard to prove what happened it would be him. I have a theory, Mind you it is just that a THEORY, I think it prolly went down something like this, the child fell in the pool, drown, and the father thinking that his daughter was going to go to jail for killing her little girl over an accident, stepped it, moved the body, covered up the evidence so that nothing could be proven.

Her behavior, while yes to an outsider may seem Evil,horrid,etc but who is to say that she wasn't doing everything she could to take her mind off the loss of her child? People do some strange things to deal with grief, and i am sure that she had plenty of that, even if she didn't act like it.

Clearly there was not enough of any kind of PROOF to get 12 people on a Jury to convict, and if you cant get a Jury with 7 women on it to convict a woman of killing her child, my gut says she didn't kill the child.

I mean they didn't even file charges against that teacher, i think it was in Texas, that FORGOT she didn't drop her baby off at the Sitter, and left the baby in a CLOSED UP CAR while she was inside teaching and they had PROOF that woman was guilty of Negligent Homicide!!! How do we decide which parent to put on trial and which one to just let slide on it? This woman just FORGOT her baby was in the car seat in the back of the car, went in to her job teaching and HOURS later someone else happened to notice that there was a dead baby in the back seat, and they didn't even TRY to file charges, i mean really?
Click to expand...

You are correct her father was a Police Officer, so he should know there would be little chance of her "going to jail" if there had been an accident. Also, if he were going to cover this up... I doubt he would have dumped the body 1/4 mail from his own home.

The teacher didn't go to jail because she was remorseful, she called the authorities, and she didn't stonewall and lie and pretend nothing was wrong. This girl not only lied to the authorities, she lied to her friends and family for months.
 
Vance71975 said:
How to make it no that i did not look up, but Buying it,is controlled. But i did just look it up and honestly, it does not look all that simple to make, Plus you would need to find a source for acetone, which i highly doubt simple finger nail polish remover would work considering the other chemicals in it.
Click to expand...

She didn't look up "Where to buy it".
Acetone is a solvent that you can buy at any hardware store.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
The teacher didn't go to jail because she was remorseful, she called the authorities, and she didn't stonewall and lie and pretend nothing was wrong. This girl not only lied to the authorities, she lied to her friends and family for months.
Click to expand...

That doesn't change the fact that she caused the death of her child through negligent behavior. I have 3 kids, i have never once "forgot" i had a baby in the car with me, and i doubt any REAL parent would forget a baby in the car.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
She didn't look up "Where to buy it".
Acetone is a solvent that you can buy at any hardware store.
Click to expand...

Again, if she bought Acetone SOMEONE somewhere would have remembered her buying it. Especially since it was brought up that she looked up how to make it, where to buy it or whatever it was she looked up. But looking something up doesn't make you guilty of a crime, i have owned many books on how to make explosives at home, i have never MADE any, but i did enjoy reading about how it was done, so does that mean if someone bombs somewhere in my home town with a home made explosive that i am automatically guilty?
 
Vance71975 said:
Again, if she bought Acetone SOMEONE somewhere would have remembered her buying it. Especially since it was brought up that she looked up how to make it, where to buy it or whatever it was she looked up. But looking something up doesn't make you guilty of a crime, i have owned many books on how to make explosives at home, i have never MADE any, but i did enjoy reading about how it was done, so does that mean if someone bombs somewhere in my home town with a home made explosive that i am automatically guilty?
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She could have easily found acetone in her father's garage.

If it was YOUR house that exploded, and the remnants of the explosive were tied to you and your home, and you lied to EVERYONE, changing your story even telling people there was no explosion, that a mysterious person stole your house... And then finally when pinned down claimed it was an accident. Then I would be surprised if you didn't get convicted.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
She could have easily found acetone in her father's garage.

If it was YOUR house that exploded, and the remnants of the explosive were tied to you and your home, and you lied to EVERYONE, changing your story even telling people there was no explosion, that a mysterious person stole your house... And then finally when pinned down claimed it was an accident. Then I would be surprised if you didn't get convicted.
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Thats all well and good, but you would think if it really was murder, that they would have been able to PROVE it was murder. I mean really, they clearly had 0% actual proof or she would have been found guilty.

The problem is, she was tried and convicted in the MEDIA before she ever went to court, and im sorry but last i knew in America it was still Innocent until PROVEN guilty. With as good as modern forensics are, if she had done it, they would have found SOMETHING that proved her guilt, i highly doubt she is smart enough to out smart an entire forensic team.
 
Vance71975 said:
Thats all well and good, but you would think if it really was murder, that they would have been able to PROVE it was murder. I mean really, they clearly had 0% actual proof or she would have been found guilty.

The problem is, she was tried and convicted in the MEDIA before she ever went to court, and im sorry but last i knew in America it was still Innocent until PROVEN guilty. With as good as modern forensics are, if she had done it, they would have found SOMETHING that proved her guilt, i highly doubt she is smart enough to out smart an entire forensic team.
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Sounds like you watch to much CSI ;)

Had she reported her missing in less than 31 days and had she not lied and stone walled so they found the body in less than 6 months, there may have been more evidence so they could identify who DID put the duct tape over her mouth. The case is circumstantial, no doubt. But the burden of the prosecution is "Beyond Reasonable Doubt", not "Beyond any Possibility". I guess it is "possible" that aliens played a part, but not reasonable.

According to her story, her father brought the dead body to her. Then what did SHE do??? Did she report her father? Was she protecting him? She protected him for 3 years, then out of the blue decided at her trial to thow him under the bus.
 
To whomever said she should sue the state for false imprisonment. She can not. She is guilty of 4 counts of lying to investigators and can get 1 year for each count. She has been incarcerated for almost 3 years. Time served.

To everyone else. You can talk about how shady Casey is and how she comes across as an inhumane killer, but the ultimate reason she is free is because of a poor job done by the prosecution. The reasonable doubt lies in the fact that there was no murder weapon, no exact cause of death from the medical examiner, and no DNA evidence linking Casey to the duct tape or the scene of where the body was found. Therefore, while the circumstantial evidence points to very strange behaviors, it is only circumstantial, and not direct evidence, so the jury didnt have much if not anything to make a conviction based on the charges and laws applied by the judge.

Poor job prosecution, end of story. Caylee is still dead
 
I think this is a case where our modern technology(or our expectations of it) kept the jury from convicting. A few decades ago, with the same circumstantial evidence, should would have been convicted. Maybe not of murder 1, but certainly of manslaughter or murder 2. The problem is that now we expect to have, and almost require, DNA evidence. The reality is that DNA evidence is not always available. Especially when the suspect lies and does everything she can to obstruct the investigators. All this did was give any DNA evidence time to degrade and wash away.

I completely agree with the post about reasonable doubt. The explanations given by the defendant were anything but reasonable. Her behavior after her daughter's death/disappearance was anything but reasonable. The real problem with this case is not a lack of evidence. Given the circumstances, they put together the best possible case against the most likely suspect. The problem with this case is that the prosecution did not do a good enough job of explaining to the jury what should be considered reasonable doubt.
 
I can agree with the decision. It was not proven......What I won't be able to stomach is watching her cash in on her ghost-written book, her movie, her reality show etc.
 
I have a 21 year old (soon to be 22) daughter. I have to admit that in the "heat of battle", I can understand and I would do absolutely anything to save her life, including sit there while she accused me, tried to discredit me and threw me under the bus. That said, when the battle is over and her life is spared I would have a hard time accepting what she did to me and more importantly what she did to my grand daughter. I wonder what kind of reception she will get from her friends and family?
 
I live in Orlando and have tried to tune this whole thing out, but it's almost impossible to do so.

But I thought I had heard that a cop (now fired) showed up to a call that there was a dead body in a wooded area; then proceeded to give the caller a 30 minute lecture about 'wasting our time' and then left without searching for said body. Caylee's body was found 5 months later in that same wooded area. But the body was so decomposed by that point any good evidence was gone. If true, look there if you're looking to throw some blame around.

IIRC, it was corrupt/incompetent cops that allowed OJ to walk too.
 
DregAddict said:
I think this is a case where our modern technology(or our expectations of it) kept the jury from convicting. A few decades ago, with the same circumstantial evidence, should would have been convicted. Maybe not of murder 1, but certainly of manslaughter or murder 2. The problem is that now we expect to have, and almost require, DNA evidence. The reality is that DNA evidence is not always available. Especially when the suspect lies and does everything she can to obstruct the investigators. All this did was give any DNA evidence time to degrade and wash away.

I completely agree with the post about reasonable doubt. The explanations given by the defendant were anything but reasonable. Her behavior after her daughter's death/disappearance was anything but reasonable. The real problem with this case is not a lack of evidence. Given the circumstances, they put together the best possible case against the most likely suspect. The problem with this case is that the prosecution did not do a good enough job of explaining to the jury what should be considered reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...

The reasonable doubt was that no 1 knows how that sweet child died. The judge is the 1 who defines reasonable doubt not the prosecution. The alternate juror came public and stated that he agrees with the verdict based on how the judge instructed them as to what reasonable doubt meant.
 

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