The righteous beer belch about midway makes this whole thing credible.
Tom Roeder's Dry Yeast vs Liquid Yeast Experiment
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remilard
Well-Known Member
So what was the result? I can't watch the video right now.
Backporchbrewery
Well-Known Member
Beer A was US-05
Beer B was Wyeast 1056
Jakecpunut picked A as the better, Bobby_M picked B as the better beer.
Beer B was Wyeast 1056
Jakecpunut picked A as the better, Bobby_M picked B as the better beer.
OP
OP
But they both described B as being "cleaner". Tom said basically the same thing as Jake did. They just preferred the taste of the A over the B, which Bobby preferred.
It is quite interesting how different taste preferences are.
remilard
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I only watched Bobby's video and just last night but watching him I could have been watching myself describe the beers when I did a similar side by side. His descriptions of B as fruitier and yeastier (I get a playdough like note sometimes from US05 which I believe is a yeastiness) and very noticeably so are exactly my experience.
Just as I suspected 
So Bobby, now that you know which is which, do you have any additional thoughts on these yeasts? I use us-05 all the time, wondering if the astringency is typical of that strain.
I'd like to know the recipe of the IPA he was drinking in that last video also.
So Bobby, now that you know which is which, do you have any additional thoughts on these yeasts? I use us-05 all the time, wondering if the astringency is typical of that strain. I'd like to know the recipe of the IPA he was drinking in that last video also.
Right after I shot the tasting video, I jotted down a few notes on each.
A: (revealed as US-05) slight solvent note in the nose initially, after acclimating it comes across as a slightly spoiled/autolyzed yeast aroma, if not just yeasty. Esters lean towards pear and bubblegum (very slight). Both malt and hops aroma and flavor rather subdued. Balanced, but neither malt nor hops come across as distinct elements. A little harsh/astringent on the tongue, but it may just be the hop bitterness without the aroma that tells me that "bitter is OK".
B: (revealed as 1056) Malt/Toffee and citrusy hops in the nose. Low esters, pear-like but very subdued. Flavor mimics aroma, pleasantly sweet malt up front but well balanced by hop flavor immediately following. Overall, well balanced and clean with the word "fresh" being the best one-word summary. Would drink multiple in a session.
I'm frankly embarrassed by how much credit Tom gave me in the summary video. I want to be clear that I'm not BJCP certified so I have no basis for thinking my palette is in any way refined. I'm just a guy tasting some beers.
In any case, I really hope the whole thing inspired many more brewers to try the experiment for themselves. If they are inclined to report back, I'm sure we'd all appreciate the further insight even if it's anecdotal and horribly unscientific.
A: (revealed as US-05) slight solvent note in the nose initially, after acclimating it comes across as a slightly spoiled/autolyzed yeast aroma, if not just yeasty. Esters lean towards pear and bubblegum (very slight). Both malt and hops aroma and flavor rather subdued. Balanced, but neither malt nor hops come across as distinct elements. A little harsh/astringent on the tongue, but it may just be the hop bitterness without the aroma that tells me that "bitter is OK".
B: (revealed as 1056) Malt/Toffee and citrusy hops in the nose. Low esters, pear-like but very subdued. Flavor mimics aroma, pleasantly sweet malt up front but well balanced by hop flavor immediately following. Overall, well balanced and clean with the word "fresh" being the best one-word summary. Would drink multiple in a session.
I'm frankly embarrassed by how much credit Tom gave me in the summary video. I want to be clear that I'm not BJCP certified so I have no basis for thinking my palette is in any way refined. I'm just a guy tasting some beers.
In any case, I really hope the whole thing inspired many more brewers to try the experiment for themselves. If they are inclined to report back, I'm sure we'd all appreciate the further insight even if it's anecdotal and horribly unscientific.
jakecpunut
Well-Known Member
Thanks again to Tom for allowing me to be a part of this!
I would LOVE to sit down with a BJCP judge or anyone for that matter that KNOWS the off flavors etc etc and taste some home brew to try and get a better understanding of things.
I really thought this was interesting and now that I'm doing 10 gallon batches I may try this myself sometime.
Btw, the IPA that I sent Tom that he was drinking in the video was Yoopers Dog Fish Head AG Recipe..
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/
I would LOVE to sit down with a BJCP judge or anyone for that matter that KNOWS the off flavors etc etc and taste some home brew to try and get a better understanding of things.
I really thought this was interesting and now that I'm doing 10 gallon batches I may try this myself sometime.
Btw, the IPA that I sent Tom that he was drinking in the video was Yoopers Dog Fish Head AG Recipe..
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/
brandonhagen1
Well-Known Member
I'm frankly embarrassed by how much credit Tom gave me in the summary video. I want to be clear that I'm not BJCP certified so I have no basis for thinking my palette is in any way refined. I'm just a guy tasting some beers.
bobby why dont you get certified
bobby why dont you get certified
bruin_ale
Well-Known Member
I've never detected yeastiness in my pale ales with US05, but I recently did a cream ale and there's just nothing for that yeasty flavor to hide behind. I'm not really interested in doing a 10 gallon side by side US05 to 1056 right now, but I'm going to try 1056 for my next pale ale or IPA and see if I like it better.
I'm working on it. All of the clubs that are hosting exams nearby are holding seats for club members (apparently) and BJCP isn't doing anything to combat that practice even though it's frowned upon.
wildwest450
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So the conclusion is in inconclusive? Imagine that.
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doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
So the conclusion is in inconclusive? Imagine that.
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I dont think so. Many people always claim they are the same yeast. I think this proves that they aren't the same.
edit: Or at least, in practical usage, they produce different beers and should therefore be considered similar but different yeast. Maybe it was pitching rates or something else that produced the different beers. But I bet even Wyeast and White Labs cal ale would have slight differences.
Well how about this question. Bobby you preferred the liquid if I remember correctly. Are you going to be using 1056 over Safale 05 from now on? Assuming you used to use dry yeast.
Or the others that are also on this forum, will you buy your preference for yeast only in the future?
Or the others that are also on this forum, will you buy your preference for yeast only in the future?
Seven
Well-Known Member
I'm currently drinking a batch of Edwort's Pale Ale that was fermented using US-05 and to me it does have a noticeable "yeast" flavor to it. Although I'm hoping this was caused by something other than the yeast because I do like the convenience of dry yeast over making yeast starters with liquid yeasts.
This thread has inspired me to conduct similar side-by-side experiments of my own before I decide which yeast I like best.
Seven
Well-Known Member
See post #205.
Thanks Seven but that was for the beer that Jake sent Tom, which was Yooper's Dogfish 60 minute clone (excellent beer, brewed it 3x already). Both Jake and Bobby seemed to like the recipe that Tom sent, and in one of the videos I think Tom mentions it is based on one of Jamil's pale ales.
Part curiosity in relation to the experiment, part me wanting to try some new pale ale brews.
Part curiosity in relation to the experiment, part me wanting to try some new pale ale brews.
Wakadaka said:
I always have some us05 on hand for last minute brew opportunity but I always go liquid if I can plan ahead. This was based on very loose correlations between which beers I thought were exceptional vs decent. My own sample size is small and there are some anomalies so I never drew hard conclusions. I will continue my usual practice of liquid unless...
tomroeder
Well-Known Member
Thanks man!!
Thanks to everyone for follwing my experiment. It was a lot of fun, except for the third taster....way disappointing, especially for the cost to send two beers from Indiana to California. I respect that guy's experience and was really looking forward to his remarks. I doubt he ever posts the video. Oh well.
For anyone who wanted the recipe that I brewed, it is a little complex, but I assure it is worth it! A delicious APA with a nice, somewhat complex malt note, with a delicious hop note to follow. My house APA!
10 gallons: (5 gallon 1/2 everything)
OP
OP
Hey, Tom, I will keep an eye out on Nige's channel, and if he ever does post, I will update this thread.
cblack85
Well-Known Member
The recipe looks good, I may try it... You should have sent a sample to me, I could have posted my thoughts as my first youtube vid...
-TH-
Well-Known Member
This might be a silly question, but...
Are the differences between the 1056 and US05 strictly a dry/liquid thing, or could it also be partly due to the fact that these yeasts have slightly evolved (for lack of better word) in their own seperate ways over time? which then makes me wonder if it is possible that the two liquid yeasts, 1056 and WLP001 could also have developed differing characteristics even though we are told that these are equals. Is that possible or am I just yeast-stupid?
Are the differences between the 1056 and US05 strictly a dry/liquid thing, or could it also be partly due to the fact that these yeasts have slightly evolved (for lack of better word) in their own seperate ways over time? which then makes me wonder if it is possible that the two liquid yeasts, 1056 and WLP001 could also have developed differing characteristics even though we are told that these are equals. Is that possible or am I just yeast-stupid?
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Very possible. They're also shipped with different nutrients, different amount of cells, etc, all these could lead to differences.
See http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/1228/JAzym06_YeastDebate.pdf which rockfish posted early.
remilard
Well-Known Member
Dunno. But in my brewery if WLP001 and WY1056 are 5% different, US05 is 30% different than either. I tried a lot things and could not get the same result. For me it is a non-issue now as I have mostly migrated from 1056/001 to 1272/051.
tomroeder
Well-Known Member
Had I known back then (several weeks ago when I mailed out the beers) that you were going to start a youtube channel, I most certainly would have! That would have been kick ass...I also know that I would not have been pissing in the wind like I was when I mailed those beers to California and they never got filmed...oh well.
You should do a yeast comparison! We should do it all kinds of different styles! I am thinking about doing a porter this winter in the same way
bassfishr
New Member
Hey all, first time poster, longtime lurker. Just curious for what reason you switched yeasts? I know you wouldn't make a switch like that for no reason, even tho this is my first post I have lurked here for quite some time so I know you are one of the more knowledgable posters on here. What characteristics are you getting from the 1272/051 that maybe you didn't get or didn't like from 1056/001?
They do indeed.
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Did one here with an IPA - WLP001 v. Wyeast Greenbelt
Included are BJCP results (scores and notes): https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/a...-greenbelt-v-wlp001-experiment-begins-203256/
tomroeder
Well-Known Member
Brewphish said:
No one has simcoe right now...if you google "hop substitution chart" you will find many suitable replacements. I do that often, can't tell the difference!
neko
Well-Known Member
tomroeder said:
Can you direct me to this chart with simcoe subs? I have looked at a lot of different charts and almost all have a blank box in the simcoe substitution area. One had "Northern Brewer?", but that's not very reassuring.
jkarp
Well-Known Member
No such thing as a Simcoe sub IMO.
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
I got a couple ounces of whole leaf from brewmasters warehouse. A little pricey but certainly fair IMO.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
I got some pellets from MB recently.
remilard
Well-Known Member
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