priming sugar in primary fermentor?

The equipment im using is an old school all in one type kit... similar to mr. beer but a little more advanced and proper. Keg and Corkscrew. I do not have a separate bucket for bottling... the system I have uses bags and when it comes time to bottle i simply attach a tap. Ive read methods of adding dry priming sugar directly to the bottles and then filling them and I have also read methods of making a mixture of priming sugar and water in a second bucket, adding your wort, and then filling your bottles from there. My question is could I simply add my priming sugar to my wort as it sits in the primary fermentor (assuming fermentation is complete), tap it, and then fill my bottles?

BenVanned, Yup, that's what I do. Mix the 5 oz. of priming sugar and two cups of water bring to a boil for 5 - 10 minutes. Let cool then gently stir into the primary bucket. While that's settling back down, I sanitize my bottles. When they're done, I fill 'em up. Good luck, Pete.

You can definitely add your priming solution to primary. You might want to use a sanitized spoon and gently stir it a little to mix it all in. After that you can let it sit for 15 minutes so the trub settles again. If you just pour it in and not stir, some bottles might be over-carbed and some might be under-carbed. They also make little tablets you can put in each bottle if you don't want to add the solution to your primary.

When I first started off I had the Mr.Beer kit. I would just add the dry sugar to each individual bottle and then fill them up and gently shake them. It seemed to work fine. I don't know if there are any disadvantages to that other than it is a pain to measure sugar for each bottle.

Why not get a bottling bucket??? It's relatively cheap. Your beer can wait a few days (or weeks) while you get one.

You can do it, but why would you then subject yourself to yeasty, cloudy beer?

The problem with bottling from a primary or secondary instead of using a bottling bucket, is that since you have patiently gone and let your beer settle and clear, in order to mix the priming solution and beer effectively, you would have to stir it in the carboy which would a) kick up all that nice sediment you have patiently let fall, b) possibly oxydize the beer.

It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

If I've waited a month for extremely clear beer, why would I then mix it all up again to mix the priming solution in, when I can easily mix it in while I'm also racking off the yeast cake which I patiently waited to drop and tighten?

Why don't you just go to the hardware store and make a bottling bucket? You can find everything you need, including a spigot there.

With my bottling bucket and my dip tube, I leave no more than about 3 ounces behind, which means I can get about 52 to 54 bottles per 5 gallon batch.

Go to a hardware store and get a translucent or white bucket...but look for one where the 5 gallon mark falls way below the top of the bucket. Usually it will say 5 gallons at 3rd band from the top. (oh get the lid too....I totally regret not getting it when I did.)

Then get a spigot and make a dedicated bottling bucket. It really defeats the purpose of both a long primary/no secondary or a secondary if you have to stir up all the nice sediment you patiently waited to settle just so you can have consistent carbonation.

Mine is the translucent Leaktite brand 5 gallon container with the gallon and liter markings from Homedepot.



Here's a pic of mine from my bottling thread.



One of my dip tubes and what gets left behind.



You'll find a ton of good info here to make bottling easier.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

Revvy said:

The problem with bottling from a primary or secondary instead of using a bottling bucket, is that since you have patiently gone and let your beer settle and clear, in order to mix the priming solution and beer effectively, you would have to stir it in the carboy which would a) kick up all that nice sediment you have patiently let fall, b) possibly oxydize the beer.

Click to expand...

I understand the cloudy part but oxidation seems a bit false. How would oxidation increase when you are cutting out transferring to another bucket? Isn't this one of your arguments against secondary fermentation. I don't see oxidation being anymore probable from stirring in the priming sugar in the primary.

gotmud99 said:

I understand the cloudy part but oxidation seems a bit false. How would oxidation increase when you are cutting out transferring to another bucket? Isn't this one of your arguments against secondary fermentation. I don't see oxidation being anymore probable from stirring in the priming sugar in the primary.

Click to expand...

hmmm, let's see shall we? I've opened up my bucket, exposing it to the surrounding air and more than likely voiding out the headspace of any protective layer of co2, so now I'm stirring air as well as sugar into my beer.

You may not believe the risk is greater for oxidation, but I sure do....

*shrug*

gotmud99 said:

I don't see oxidation being anymore probable from stirring in the priming sugar in the primary.

Click to expand...

When yyou stir it in you aerate the beer as well. Could be a lot, could be not so much. You just expose less to oxygen when you siphon it to a bottling bucket as the siphone tube is usually kept at the bottom of the bottling bucket. So the only beer that gets exposed to air is the top layer. The rest of the beer swirls safely at the bottom, mixing in the priming sugar and avoiding icky oxidation.

daddysu said:

When you stir it in you aerate the beer as well. Could be a lot, could be not so much. You just expose less to oxygen when you siphon it to a bottling bucket as the siphone tube is usually kept at the bottom of the bottling bucket. So the only beer that gets exposed to air is the top layer. The rest of the beer swirls safely at the bottom, mixing in the priming sugar and avoiding icky oxidation.

Click to expand...

+1, and if you've racked carefully, you should have also kicked up co2 with the beer, that will be rising with your beer and should still be protecting that top layer from exposure to the surrounding air.

I understand oxidation but I fail to see how the risk is greater by adding sugar during primary compared to adding it to a bottling bucket. To each there own I guess.

I think the logic is:
- If I add priming sugar to my beer and stir, I'll stir in oxygen. The more vigorously I stir, the more I'll add.
- If I add the priming sugar while I'm racking to another vessel, the carbon dioxide released in the first seconds puts a protective layer over the beer. Since I'm racking with a view of doing it gently and not adding air to the beer (or releasing too much carbon dioxide), I'll add less oxygen.

I have to disagree with the statement that you would void the headspace of the CO2 and expose it to O2. This may happen once you stir, but I can't see how it would happen by taking the lid off. CO2 is heavier than ambient air. It's not just going to rise out of the bucket on its own accord

That being said...pony up and spend $5-10 on a bottling bucket. Makes no sense to let the beer clear and then stir it all up again

gotmud99 said:

I understand oxidation but I fail to see how the risk is greater by adding sugar during primary compared to adding it to a bottling bucket. To each there own I guess.

Click to expand...

Because when you stir you are at a greater risk of stirring in any oxygen coming in contact with the beer.

When you rack, you are racking from the bottom of the beer to the bottom of the vessel. you are moving any co2 in solution and in the trub along with the beer, as the beer rises in the second container, your are pushing the co2 upward and even ahead of the beer. In a sense you are flooding the vessel with co2 and purging it of any air, or at least putting a "cap" of co2 on top of the beer and pushing that upward. With CAREFUL, slow, and gentle racking you're almost in a closed system- As long as you're not sloshing then you shouldn't really be having any contact with the surrounding air- even at the top of the beer.

Like Daddysu said, maybe the stirring is enough to cause oxidation, maybe not, but despite what you might think, it's a risk.

An my experience on here has been even if you say "STIR GENTLY" inevitably someone's going to whip the hell out of their beer. Some folks only understand enough to be dangerous, and often believe that "more is better" (like the guy who read those arguments/discussions about olive oil aeration and thought that if one pin sized drop is good an entire tablespoon of olive oil would be better....and then he posted asking why his beer was ruined, and it took several posts before he even mentioned the olive oil.) When I give advice I try to give advice about minimizing risk as much as possible......


You guys can argue and quibble about this as much as you want, I'm done with it.....You give your advice and I'll give mine, and the OP can decide for himself......He's got all sides of the argument, he can do with it what he wants.

Racking is definitely the safer route. Opening the bucket has to be done with both so we can take that out of the equation. With racking, you stick the racking cane in the primary and leave it there. No risk of oxidation there. Once you start the syphon the beer will come out slowly (not splashing) into the bottling bucket at the same time it mixes with the sugar solution. That will whirlpool which will help mix the solution and if you keep the end of the tube under the beer, it won't splash.

With stirring, you can do it without splashing and create a whirlpool. But you may splash a little without knowing and some people (like Revvy said) will splash not knowing they are doing it. Not only will that put oxygen in the beer but it will also stir up the trub. Now you have to let the beer sit out so the trub settles without CO2 on top of it protecting it.

Stirring is definitely possible if done carefully but racking is the safest and easiest method.

I use Palmer's method in 2b. I have a Coopers primary fermenting vessel.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter11-4.html

My beers do have some sediment at the bottom of the bottles but its not excessive and I'm not bothered by it.

you are not supposed to add the sugar directly to each bottle. that is called the "prohobition method" and it is prone to creating bottles bombs. definitely boil, cool, and add to the whole batch. you really should get a bottling bucket so that you can stir in the priming sugar or else you may get some undercarbonated bottles and some overcarbonated bottles.

this method makes bottling SO MUCH easier. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/bottling-tips-homebrewer-94812/

I believe I will be taking Revvy's advice and going with a diy bucket... It will be a good two weeks before fermentation is complete so I will have plenty of time to make one. I also took into consideration this old school kit i have and noticed I wouldnt really be able to stir in priming sugars so my only option would be dry sugar in the bottles or buying/making a bottling bucket.... I do have a question.. If I were to purchase a bucket with a top... made two holes in the top... used one to fill the bucket.. the other for oxygen to escape from as the bucket is being filled and then airlocked both upon completion and allowed to do a few hours of sitting before bottling would this not be a slightly improved system?

BenVanned said:

I do have a question.. If I were to purchase a bucket with a top... made two holes in the top... used one to fill the bucket.. the other for oxygen to escape from as the bucket is being filled and then airlocked both upon completion and allowed to do a few hours of sitting before bottling would this not be a slightly improved system?

Click to expand...

It's just overcomplicating something that millions of brewers do every day with no issue. Is it really worth the extra time/effort? I mean, we don't ruin our beers by bottling, especially by the way outlined in my bottling sticky.

Are you doing it because it will improve the process and make bottling easier (like some of the tips and tips in the thread) or out of noob paranoia and fear? If it's because you think it'll make bottling easier then great, do it and add it to the tips in the sticky. If it's 'cause you're afraid of ruining your beer, then no...

The way I look at it is, if carefully bottling the millions if not billions of gallons of beer that has been bottled the way we've done it resulted in ruined beer, then we wouldn't be doing it the way we do, would we?

You have a very valid point Revvy.

BenVanned said:

You have a very valid point Revvy.

Click to expand...

Innovating is great, but re-inventing the wheel soley because you are scared to do what everyone else already does quite successfully is a waste of time and energy.

One of my sayings is, "If you brew from fear, you won't make great beer" And won't have much fun in this awesome hobby either.

Revvy's advice for the new brewer.....

I always pour my priming sugar solution directly into my primary and bottle right from the primary. You won't kick up any yeast from the bottom if gently stir it in for a few seconds and let the solution settle for a few minutes. I have always had great and very even carbonation amongst all of my bottles and I get pretty clear beers also. I have even forgetten to stir it in and the bottles still turned out fine.

Just because people always used bottling buckets in the past does not mean their is not a better way to do it. Everyone used to say you had to secondary, but now everyone on this site seems to say you don't have to.

Racking to a bottling bucket seems like an invitation to infection and getting oxygenated to me. I would rather move the beer only once, from the primary to the bottle. Give it a try and if it works for you keep doing it.

How do you make sure the priming solution mixes properly with stirring up the trub on bottom

I just pour it in and give it maybe two or three very slow stirs at the top of the carboy. I don't put the stirring spoon too far down into it which seems to help. Usually the trub does not even move. I let it sit for a a bit and then bottle.

Thanks Revvy... Yet another experiment I have to try. Tomorrow I start the starter/no starter test. I've always batch primed in the primary and never had a problem with it, but I haven't had anything to compare it to either. I'm also testing Whirlfloc and straining (My wort that is.) to further clarify my brews. Slowly tweaking the process and finding out what works best. It's sorta like when someone tries to describe the flavor of pineapple, sometimes you gotta see for yerself.