Pilsner Urquell Clone

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mojotele

mojotele

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Hey guys!

So, I'm planning to do a Pilsner Urquell clone, mainly to see if I can pull off a triple decoction. I want to have a model I can follow to judge my success.

I've looked at a lot of other recipes and read things such as this article, and I think I have everything straight except for one thing - hop additions.

The article states that 350 g of Saaz hops per hL are added (at 3.8% AA). That's about 0.47 ounces per gallon. The boil length is 2 hours. There are three additions - first wort hop, 80 minutes, and 25 minutes.

I'm assuming the "per hL" part refers to a pre-boil volume as you don't get anywhere close to the stated 40 IBU using the final volume of 5 gallons. I'm also assuming their boil off rate is a lot lower than mine because the amount of hops I'd end up using otherwise is way high for 40 IBUs. I'm also assuming the kind of hops used are whole leaf hops.

So, I kind of made up my own hopping schedule. I'm doing a 90 minute boil as 120 minutes is just too much for me. I'm planning to do the following:

0.75 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) as FWH
1.35 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) at 80 minutes
0.90 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) at 25 minutes

Any thoughts? Think that will get me pretty close?

Thanks for your input!
 
mojotele said:
Hey guys!

So, I'm planning to do a Pilsner Urquell clone, mainly to see if I can pull off a triple decoction. I want to have a model I can follow to judge my success.

I've looked at a lot of other recipes and read things such as this article, and I think I have everything straight except for one thing - hop additions.

The article states that 350 g of Saaz hops per hL are added (at 3.8% AA). That's about 0.47 ounces per gallon. The boil length is 2 hours. There are three additions - first wort hop, 80 minutes, and 25 minutes.

I'm assuming the "per hL" part refers to a pre-boil volume as you don't get anywhere close to the stated 40 IBU using the final volume of 5 gallons. I'm also assuming their boil off rate is a lot lower than mine because the amount of hops I'd end up using otherwise is way high for 40 IBUs. I'm also assuming the kind of hops used are whole leaf hops.

So, I kind of made up my own hopping schedule. I'm doing a 90 minute boil as 120 minutes is just too much for me. I'm planning to do the following:

0.75 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) as FWH
1.35 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) at 80 minutes
0.90 ounces of Saaz hop pellets (3.8%) at 25 minutes

Any thoughts? Think that will get me pretty close?

Thanks for your input!
Click to expand...

Looks like you are on top of it. I make a clone of the stuff myself. To me it's dang good. The recipe is here
 
sudbuster said:
Let us know how it turns out!! :)
Click to expand...

Will do! I actually used your recipe to try and formulate my own. I started with your hopping schedule and went from there. I just wanted to try and keep things as close to the original as possible for the fun of it. Plus, I've never done a first wort hopping so I figured it would be cool.

With your recipe, do you use an under-modified malt or just your average Pilsner malt? I'm thinking about trying that Briess "less-modified" malt, but I'd have to have it shipped and need to decide if that's really worth it.
 
mojotele said:
Will do! I actually used your recipe to try and formulate my own. I started with your hopping schedule and went from there. I just wanted to try and keep things as close to the original as possible for the fun of it. Plus, I've never done a first wort hopping so I figured it would be cool.

With your recipe, do you use an under-modified malt or just your average Pilsner malt? I'm thinking about trying that Briess "less-modified" malt, but I'd have to have it shipped and need to decide if that's really worth it.
Click to expand...

Part of the reason for the decoction method was that the malts of those days were not well modified, and boiling the mash took care of the problem. There were other reasons, but, IMO, modern malts don't benfit from three decoctions. When I wrote out the recipe, i was using Moravian malt, which is undermodified. I have made this recipe using well modified pilsner malt and only one decoction and it still made good beer. I also tried well modified pilsner malt with no decoction, just a standard step mash. The results were not as good, at least for my taste. I believe standard pilsner malt and one decoction ( the second one ) would probably work just fine for you. Moravian malt is hard to find at times and is usually more expensive.
Anyway, have fun and report results please..:)
 
I have a kind of clone of it fermenting now. Instead of doing the decoction, I added a couple of pounds of Vienna.

Used Wyeast 2001, it was still going strong this morning.

:mug:
 
I'm doing a bohemian pilsner this weekend and I'm going to do a 60-30-15-10-5-1 hop addition. I love saaz though. I think that when you get Pilsner Urquell in a bottle, the saaz aroma is often the first thing to go (effing green bottles). Get it on tap, and its like a saaz party in your mouth. I also really like krusovice imperial, I think that beer has more saaz aroma/flavor than PU.
 
Cpt_Kirks said:
I have a kind of clone of it fermenting now. Instead of doing the decoction, I added a couple of pounds of Vienna.

Used Wyeast 2001, it was still going strong this morning.

:mug:
Click to expand...

+1, I have one on tap right now and it's damn good. No decoctions with a bit of Vienna malt. I use Ken Leonards Prague Pilsener recipe for mine. It's here about half way down the page. Fermented at 56 degrees, then as a prophylactic I did a D rest at around 65 when it was done for 3 days. Lagered at 34 for a couple months. It's crisp and clean with a bit of Saaz bite.
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
More info on PU if interested. PU specifics start on page 13. Note the high FG/low attenuation.
Click to expand...

I noticed that elsewhere. A lot of recipes seem to get high attenuation/low FG. PU is a rather full-bodied beer. Some of that comes from the decoction I suppose, but I noticed that the article I linked to in my original posts cites the saccharification rest temperature as 143.6*F. At first I thought, "Is that a typo?" Then I wondered if that partially accounts for the low attenuation.

It is in the beta amylase optimum range, but below the alpha amylase optimum range. Thus, it could reduce fermentability by leaving behind a lot of limit dextrins.

But, the starches are less soluble at 143*F as well, and your source cites the saccharification rest at 149*F. The extra body could come from a shorter protein rest with under modified malt instead. I might do a small mash at 143*F and do a fast ferment or something with dry yeast to see what the heck happens.
 
Im also trying to do an urquell clone but im waiting for it to get a bit colder. I have a room in my house where I can leave the window open. If it gets too cold i can always open the door to keep the temps at around 45 or so. I was thinking this is the hardest part of making a lager. I wanted to know what main base grain you went with. I decided on bohemian grain and a bohemian wyeast activator pack. I dont understand why a lot of clones suggest german 2 row or any other yeast when its a czech beer. Ive also seen clones that use a hops other than saaz. Was I right to go with bohemian yeast and grain or is there a reason people use otherwise?
 
gusty83 said:
I dont understand why a lot of clones suggest german 2 row or any other yeast when its a czech beer.
Click to expand...

German Pilsner is less modified and does well if you are doing a decoction. It still has sufficient enzymes for it's own starch plus 15-20% adjuncts. Decoction will give it slightly higher color, malt flavor and yield. It produces sulfur flavors typical of lagers, but it is more intense in German Malt. It's partly a function of the barley strain, but is also accentuated by the lower kilning. Sulfur compounds are very volatile and will be driven off by higher temps.

Belgian Pilsner is fully modified and is lighter in color and malty flavor than German Pilsner. Great for light flavored pilsners, Belgian dubbels, tripels, whites and specialty ales.

If you want something lighter without the complexity, Belgian is the malt to go to for a Pilsner IMO. Something a bit more complex and malty in mind, doing a decoction? German Pilsner Malt.

One of the great things about home brewing lies in your infinite ability to tailor your brew to your specific tastes. I just kicked my keg of Pilsner :( and I'll miss it. I added the Vienna to Belgian Pilsner malt and will do Ken Leonard's recipe again without modifications in January next year.
 
Bonde said:
How did the clone turn out?
Click to expand...

If you are talking to me, I'm actually brewing this again next week. My new years resolution to brew on a schedule to have beers ready at the right time isn't working out. I'm brewing when I run low. My last experience with the Mayfair Court clone was awesome though, so I don't anticipate this one being any different.

Cheers!
 

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