MLF and primary at same time?

I will be making a batch of still cider in the next month or so. It will be from fresh pressed apples from a nearby apple farm. I will likely use an ale yeast (not sure which one yet) and a wyeast malo lactic blend.

My goal is to have a semi sweet still hard cider without the malo bite. Very Crispin-ish. I'm thinking of targeting 1.005-1.010 for sweetness. So I have a few questions.

1) Is it possible for malo and primary fermentation to take place simultaneously? Ideally, I'd like to do both at the same time and pasteurize when it get's to the sweetness I like.

2) How different are the fermentation timelines for malo and yeast? Is it possible for the malo to get rid of the pucker flavor as quickly as the yeast will eat most of the sugar?

3) Is this even feasible without the use of additives or back sweetening? I'd prefer to bottle when it's at the desired sweetness and pasteurize immediately after bottling to keep it from drying out. But that would kill off the malo bacteria and keep that process from happening.

4) Should I just let the yeast finish their job and then do the MLF and add some maple syrup prior to bottling and pasteurizing?

Thanks for the help!

There will be ripe apples in the United states within a month??

I think they start harvesting in early august here, so a little more than a month. It's been a pretty cold spring so far, so I don't know how that will affect it. I haven't contacted the farm I'll be getting it from yet, but they do have frozen cider year round if I can't get it fresh.

You can do mlf at the same time as primary, though I haven't tried it. MLF normally takes about 2 weeks for me though thats just guessing from bubbles etc. It would be best not to add too much so2 (metabisulfite) at the start and maybe avoid so2 producing yeasts like EC-1118, and use a fairly high pitching rate for the mlf culture. Temperature would be a problem, too high and the ferment will be too fast to stop, too low and the mlf won't work. Around 18C would probably be right if you can control it. Option 4 would be easier.

I was thinking of using an ale yeast and fermenting around 60-62F. According to wyeast, their mlf culture works from 55 to 90F. So I would be on the low end for both.

Thanks for the input. I'll try it and see how the flavors end up. This seems to be a very uncommon method for cider, so I might just go with a small batch and see what happens.

From "The Home Winemakers Manual" by Lum Eisenman

Bacteria and yeast compete for nutrients in the juice, so ML fermentation is more likely to occur when the bacteria are added early in the sugar fermentation before the yeast has consumed all the nutrients.

Click to expand...

Ahh. Thanks for that!

A few observations I have made about MLF

- It's just an option. You may like it or not, but I think it's something worth trying. Your option of a small trial batch sounds good.

- MLF with carbonation gives a very refreshing drink. You may find you don't need sweetening once the malic acid has gone.

- Give it a little time. As with normal fermentation it doesn't taste its best straight after it finishes. A couple of weeks after it has finished, the cider will have settled and you will get a better idea what it will taste like.

- A lot of people say if you are going to backsweeten you shouldn't do a MLF because the acid will balance the sweetness. However there are also plenty who do allow a MLF then backsweeten so its a matter of opinion.

- MLF works best with decent quality juice, preferably fresh pressed from fully ripe apples. If the juice is poor quality or the apples not fully ripe, there may not be a lot of flavour left when the malic acid is gone.

Greg