Pitching onto cake...

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Lando

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I am about to pitch my APA onto a cake I had that was a cream ale that went into the keg today. The yeast started out as Wyeast 1056. There is a LOT of trub left in the bucket from the cream ale. Should I worry about the trub, or just go ahead and dump onto the cake, trub and all? :drunk:
 
I would wash it first using the yeast washing sticky located somewhere around here, (sorry too druck to find the link). It doesn't take much time and will greatly improve your chances of a good ferment on your next batch.

*edit
here is the linkYeast Washing
 
I repitch directly onto the yeast cake all the time. Sure, its not ideal, and yeast washing isn't hard, but repitching onto a full cake is one way to make SURE you get a good hard fermentation.

It can be done.
 
I did it once and it worked fine. I did have a quick and violent fermentation. The Beer tasted good.

But, I do remember reading somewhere that pitching on a yeast cake is way "over-pitching" the necessary amount of yeast.
 
i reuse the yeast cake with nearly every new packet/vial of yeast. It is probably my favorite brewing practice. Yes, you are probably over pitching, but the effects of that are moot in my opinion.

It is very nice to see active fermentation within 45 minutes, and the krausen drop within 48 hours...
 
kornbread said:
But, I do remember reading somewhere that pitching on a yeast cake is way "over-pitching" the necessary amount of yeast.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's so much yeast cells as it is off flavors. Sediment isn't just yeast but all the spent waste from yeast cells converting that particular batch. I personally don't pitch on a yeast cake...but if I did, I would only do it from a batch that is a lighter style, and I would not do it more then once per cake. For my brewing practices, I just make a big starter and my fermentations start very quickly.
 
I think it depends on the style you are brewing. I pitch onto a yeast cake all the time for pale ales, English beers, lagers, anything that doesn't tend to showcase the yeast. If I'm doing a hefeweizen, I'll always underpitch and let the esthers and phenols in. If I'm doing a Belgian, I'll usually do a starter, but I wouldn't repitch since you don't usually get the good yeast character that way.
 
What lag times have you experienced when pitching onto yeast cake? I'm closing in on 24 hours and starting to worry. Thinking about repitching with a fresh tube from White Labs.
 
LASTNHOVGATOR said:
What lag times have you experienced when pitching onto yeast cake? I'm closing in on 24 hours and starting to worry. Thinking about repitching with a fresh tube from White Labs.
Click to expand...

When pitching on a cake, my experience is to measure lag time in minutes, not hours.
 
uwjester said:
I think it depends on the style you are brewing. I pitch onto a yeast cake all the time for pale ales, English beers, lagers, anything that doesn't tend to showcase the yeast. If I'm doing a hefeweizen, I'll always underpitch and let the esthers and phenols in. If I'm doing a Belgian, I'll usually do a starter, but I wouldn't repitch since you don't usually get the good yeast character that way.
Click to expand...

I like this approach. It just seems that if your going to be concerned about pitching rates, then you should care enough to match your pitching rate to what you want it to do for your beer.

Question. I read this in the book brew like a MONK:

"Very high or very low pitching rates increase ester levels."

It sounds like this statement doesn't match your experience. Am I correct? Any thoughts?
 
chefmike said:
I have lagged pitching unto a cake that came from a long primary (four weeks IIRC).

Relax! She will blow soon!
Click to expand...

I was in business as of this morning. The lag was between 24 and 30 hours. I think it was a combo of poor aeration and pitching on an almost four-week primary.
 
I have a an APA in the fermenter now, and I plan on duplicating the recipe and pitching onot the cake.

I am goin to dry hop in the primary, would there be any negative effects from the additional hop sludge in the primary, or just more trub afterwards?

I have never pitched onto a cake before and want to give it a try, but I also want to have a good tasting brew from it. Any thoughts on this?
 
My most recent 2 went on the same yeast and all I did was to give the hop/krausen ring a quick wipe with a sanitizer soaked towel. The new one came to life quick and seems good going into the secondary even though it certainly needs time to blend. Both mine where fairly light brews and I'm not seeing any ill effects.

As for the extra hops sludge, way I figure is your old stuff is probably pretty well spent after the first run. Probably wouldn't change the taste any, but then there may be some chemistry (breakdown of old plant matter?) there that I'm not remembering as well.
 
I have repitched on to a yeast cake up to four times with no problems. I usually schedule brews around the yeast I have ready so I can repitch: lighter brews first and heavier brews last.
 
Schnitzengiggle said:
I guess there are no thought on this...
Click to expand...

The different batches won't come out identical. In my experience, the first batch is going to have more yeast character as the yeast had to grow into the right colony size. The second batch will probably feature the hops a bit more, not a problem with an APA. It will probably come out a little drier than the first batch as it attenuates a bit further, again not a problem for an APA.

As for the dry-hop issue, I don't think I can offer any advice. Are you removing the hops after the dry hopping? If so, no problem. If you leave them, I would think they would impart a hoppy, and then grassy, flavor to the new batch. If you are dry hopping with leaves/flowers thrown in there, I would personally pitch a new yeast starter with the new batch. If you are dry-hopping with pellets, put them in a hop-bag and give yourself a way to pull the bag when it is time to move on.

I disagree with BrewStooge on the wiping the kreusen ring issue. That stuff may look like nasty sludge, but it is sterile. When I pitch onto a cake, I disturb the inside of the bucket/bottle as little as possible. Why risk introducing new contaminants?
 
"I disagree with BrewStooge on the wiping the kreusen ring issue. That stuff may look like nasty sludge, but it is sterile. When I pitch onto a cake, I disturb the inside of the bucket/bottle as little as possible. Why risk introducing new contaminants?"

Safe to leave, sterile, I'm sure it is (maybe even healthy?) but my thought is I'm looking for the yeast not the leftovers from the previous batch and wasn't prepared to try washing the yeast at the time. ;) Figuring they where different flavors I wanted to leave as little of the other beer as possible for the next batch, so a little star-san on the side of the bucket couldn't hurt.

And yes for some reason I haven't been able to get a partial quote to work yet so I did it the cheap way. :p
 
uwjester said:
The different batches won't come out identical. In my experience, the first batch is going to have more yeast character as the yeast had to grow into the right colony size. The second batch will probably feature the hops a bit more, not a problem with an APA. It will probably come out a little drier than the first batch as it attenuates a bit further, again not a problem for an APA.

As for the dry-hop issue, I don't think I can offer any advice. Are you removing the hops after the dry hopping? If so, no problem. If you leave them, I would think they would impart a hoppy, and then grassy, flavor to the new batch. If you are dry hopping with leaves/flowers thrown in there, I would personally pitch a new yeast starter with the new batch. If you are dry-hopping with pellets, put them in a hop-bag and give yourself a way to pull the bag when it is time to move on.

I disagree with BrewStooge on the wiping the kreusen ring issue. That stuff may look like nasty sludge, but it is sterile. When I pitch onto a cake, I disturb the inside of the bucket/bottle as little as possible. Why risk introducing new contaminants?
Click to expand...

I'm gonna just toss my pellets in and let the sludge sink to the bottom. I should have asked if that would have any negative side effects.
 
BrewStooge said:
Safe to leave, sterile, I'm sure it is (maybe even healthy?) but my thought is I'm looking for the yeast not the leftovers from the previous batch and wasn't prepared to try washing the yeast at the time. ;) Figuring they where different flavors I wanted to leave as little of the other beer as possible for the next batch, so a little star-san on the side of the bucket couldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying about just wanting the yeast and leaving little of anything else behind. I guess that is where I think scheduling comes into play. I wouldn't do a stout followed by a blonde, because the flavors would affect the next batch, but then I might do a blonde followed by a stout since the blonde is not likely to have anything negative to add to the stout. The repitches I have done in the past few months have been mild -> ESB, brown ale -> chocolate stout, blonde -> fruit beer, and pale ale -> IIPA. None of the starter beers are going to make any difference into the 2nd batches.

The point I was trying to make is that partially sanitizing a fermenter could lead to trouble, at least for me. I could see wiping off the top ring of scum and brushing my shirt sleeve along the rim or something, maybe even a drop of sweat falling to the bottom. Neither of those is likely to ruin a batch, but why take the risk?

By the way, I love the username.
 

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