Can you spot a mash problem?

I've been brewing my own beer for over 2 years now (and over 200 gallons)but been having some efficiency problems in the last year. I have some converted busch kegs (welded fitting on the bottom), counter flow chiller, and a few burners. Just recently I made a 4 tier setup in my garage so from the HLT to the fermentor I don't have to raise a vessel.

My grain is crushed twice in a bur grinder at the beer supply store. I start my process the day before by boiling 15 gallons of water. The next morning I raise the temp up 5* past the point to adjust for grain temp so I hit 155* (which recently has been 175* with 40* grain) then I dump 8 gallons of the water into the MT and wait for it to cool to the target sparge temp. I put the false bottom in, dump the grain in, put the lid on, and use aluminum faced plastic bubble wrap around the keg.

I stir the mash about twice during the 90 minute rest and raise the HLT temp back up to 175 for sparging. I then pour the wort out to set the filter bed and false bottom, attach my sparge head, and fly sparge for about 30 minutes. In this time I check the gravity of the LT. If it's low I'll stop the sparging at 8 gallons. I've done it this same basic way with the same equipment for 2 years. Does it sound like I'm doing anything wrong? Any insight would be awesome as i don't know anyone who could come over and help. I'm self taught so I might be missing something important. I'll post a recipe.

Amber
22lbs 2 row
1 lb crystal 135
1 lb dextrin
8oz chocolate

Old SG of 1.070 @10gal on 9/29/07, recent SG of 1.054 @10gal on 1/3/09

If you hadn't said that you run your grain through the mill twice, I would have immediately said that only a change in crush at the LHBS could account for a sudden drop in efficiency like that. That's very strange.

How is the grain on the first crush? Noticed any changes to it at all?

Your process sounds fine. You could try sparging a bit more slowly, but I can't imagine it is going to get you up much.

Have you checked your hydrometer to make sure it is reading accurately?

Sorry -- I can't think of much else right now.

would it be possible that your water supply changed. Maybe the water department is pulling from a new source.

Why do you pre-boil the water?

Kai

Pre-boiling 15 gallons of water? sounds like such a hassle

I would Check the hydrometer first, I had a similar problem with my efficiency dropping a while back when I moved, I compensated for it and ended up with more ABV than anticipated or wanted... It turned out to be my hydrometer reading 8 points low.

BeerPressure said:

Pre-boiling 15 gallons of water? sounds like such a hassle

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Probably so, but I've read in many places that if you don't and its tap water, you'll have chlorine in the water which is bad mmkay? Am I wrong? I know one other technique was to just let the water sit out in a container overnite to let the chlorine naturally evaporate out too, I guess that may be the way people that do the larger batches do it? I always preboil my water for 15 mins...

pompeiisneaks said:

Probably so, but I've read in many places that if you don't and its tap water, you'll have chlorine in the water which is bad mmkay? Am I wrong? I know one other technique was to just let the water sit out in a container overnite to let the chlorine naturally evaporate out too, I guess that may be the way people that do the larger batches do it? I always preboil my water for 15 mins...

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There is no way chlorine makes it through a 60 minute wort boil so there is no need to preboil it. And, a 15 minute boil won't rid you of the chloramines if they are a problem.

Not only that but that trace chlorine, or temporary hardness, can actually help in the mash process. Your preboil might be softening your water to an undesirable level. Easy fix or test to see if it is the water. Try pH buffer tabs.

dontman said:

There is no way chlorine makes it through a 60 minute wort boil so there is no need to preboil it.

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The problem is that chlorines react in the mash tun, not the boil. So you have to remove them before you mash.

A quick and easy method is to simply use campden tablets. A single tablet will remove the chlorine/chloramines from up to 20 gallons of tap water. Just crush and mix well until dissolved. They take only minutes to work.

My beers have all turned out great without pre-boiling any water. I would quit brewing before pre-boiling a **** ton of water.

FlyGuy said:

If you hadn't said that you run your grain through the mill twice, I would have immediately said that only a change in crush at the LHBS could account for a sudden drop in efficiency like that. That's very strange.

How is the grain on the first crush? Noticed any changes to it at all?

Your process sounds fine. You could try sparging a bit more slowly, but I can't imagine it is going to get you up much.

Have you checked your hydrometer to make sure it is reading accurately?

Sorry -- I can't think of much else right now.

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The brew supply store changed their grinder and the new one wasn't getting a complete crush. There was lots of grain getting through that wasn't even cracked so I started crushing twice.

When I was making 5gal extract brews I was using distilled water from the grocery store and adding gypsum. So when I went to 10 gallon I boiled it to make sure that everything was dead in it. We get our water from a river about 7 miles from the delta so it has to be full of minerals. It smells of chlorine so that's another reason I boil. That wouldn't hurt the mineral content though right?

I put my hydrometer in water and it said 0.000. Maybe I'll try it again or I'll cross check with my friends hydrometer. I'll post back later to see what I discover. The beer itself tastes great so maybe I shouldn't worry about it?

Maybe I'll try a batch sparge and see what kind of efficiency I get. Maybe I'm not fly sparging slow enough like you said. I'm brewing in the next week or two so I'll be on it. When I discover something new I'll post right back. Thanks a bunch for the good idea's guys!

-travis

BrewMunkey_1 said:

The brew supply store changed their grinder and the new one wasn't getting a complete crush. There was lots of grain getting through that wasn't even cracked so I started crushing twice.

-travis

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I'd try a different crush. It has to be the crush if you haven't changed your procedures and what you wrote signs fine anyway. That is one big drop in efficiency! Good luck and keep us posted.

A 30 minute sparge seems rather short. I believe Noonan wrote in New Brewing Lager Beer said that a typical runoff should take at least an hour or more. I work in a brewpub myself, and our typical sparge is usually 85 minutes or more.

Fast sparges can cause channeling. The leftover grains should have almost no residual sweetness when the runnoff is complete. If everything else with your setup is the same, that could be one place to start.