Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

Blackhawkbrew said:

I just tried a sample of my 1st mead (I've never had mead before) that I made on 8/7 and it tastes aweful! VERY strong alcohol flavor and extremely dry (virtually no flavor) (gravity was at 1.013, I forgot to get a starting gravity).

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6 weeks is not enough time even for an AOM. i usually let mine age 3 or 4 months before bottling. bread yeast is an inconsistent thing. maybe yours attenuated more than normal. usually AOM is pretty sweet. i would consider myself lucky that it went drier. i've been trying to get that to happen. put it aside and let it age. try it again in 6 months. hopefully you made enough to have good mead by the time it matures. i always make 5 gallon batches.

#2 JAO 1 gallon
1 orange cut into 1/16ths squeezed
25 raisens organic
2.5 lbs clover honey suebee
1.0 lbs alidoro honey
1 tsp. Flieshmanns bread yeast
1 cinnimon stick
Water to one gallon

O.G 1140 @ 18.5% abv
Started at 5:00 pm on 9-21-09


Mixed honey with 2 cups warm water by shaking like craZy filled 3"
from top with water. Cut Orange into sixteenths squeezed put into
carboy. Added 25 raisens, 1 cinnimon stick. Shook like crazy. Added 1
tsp. Yeast directly to carboy. Gave about 10 shakes.


41 seconds between bubbles @ 6:00pm:rockin:

I started my first batch of JAOM on 9/4/09. I stuck to the recipe as close as possible, but decided to make one substitution. I used 25 dried blueberries instead of 25 raisins. Also I used a California juice orange to avoid the pithy taste some people have described. Juice oranges have much less pith than navel oranges so hopefully less pith taste.

#1 JAOM
One Cali juice orange quartered
25 dried blueberries
3.5 lbs of local raw wildflower honey
1 packet of Flieshmanns bread yeast
1 cinnamon stick
1 gallon jug of Absopure spring water

I mixed the ingredients and topped with ballon w/pin hole. There was not much action that night, but when I woke up it was bubbling like mad 2 and a half weeks later the bubbling has died down, I can't hear it anymore, but I do see very tiny bubbles. Also the yeast has settled on the sides and bottom. Will post back in a few months with updates.

Just Bottled a One gallon batch of this today still tastes abit off? i guess hOT is the term. i got roughly 4 22oz bottles and one 12 oz. bottle, would it be best to to store it at room temp? or in my nice cold brewfridge? same question goes for some cyzer i just bottled, should i store at room temp? or refridgerate? thanks
-Miles

MrMiles said:

Just Bottled a One gallon batch of this today still tastes abit off? i guess hOT is the term. i got roughly 4 22oz bottles and one 12 oz. bottle, would it be best to to store it at room temp? or in my nice cold brewfridge? same question goes for some cyzer i just bottled, should i store at room temp? or refridgerate? thanks
-Miles

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As long as your room temperature is not above 75F, store it room temp. If you want it carb'd, don't put it in the fridge. Storing it chilled will retard any carbonation. It will take months to carbonate at low temps (~45F) and depending on the yeast, it will not. So storing chilled will be a good method to keep it stilled and not carbonated.

I would personally stash the bottles in the back of a closet and forget them for a long time. Maybe try one once a year and see how it ages.

I made a 5gal batch, so didn't have to worry about the temptation wanting to try it with only five bottles. :cross:

thanks i like sweet and still not a big carbonation fan except for beer
gosh right now i have 16 gallons of various meads and cysers ciders going and i only started brewing about 8 weeks ago! talk about habit forming. problem is i have to wait for them to age so i keep making more! i dont even know if anything i brewed so far is any good except for the samplings. but in about 4 to 6 months i guess some of it will pay off thanks for the help.
-Miles

Chriso said:

Sounds like a job for a huge batch and force carbing ina keg.

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HAW HAW HAW !!! i can see the red keg cups now!

How do you guys bottle this? My first mead, and I don't want it carbed. Is the air in the bottle an issue at all? My understanding when I used to bottle my beer was that it pretty much was used up during natural carbing.

I never did top off my mead to 1 gallon (as per directions, about 3 inches head space was left), should I bother with pouring in some boiled water to top off?

I put off transferring my mead for about 5.5 months, here's to hoping I didn't screw it up. I took a sip of the gunky leftover stuff after transferring and it tasted pretty hot, I tasted something else but I was distracted by the burning sensation so I'm not sure. I figure in a few days after it re-settles I'll bottle and age for a few more months before I try a glass.

You need to top it up to prevent oxidation. In the bottle, there is just a tiny bit of headspace that doesn't cause much oxidation so don't worry about it once it's bottled. In the carboy, you have to top it off.

Honey does not go off, ever. It's amazing stuff! They have actually found mummies preserved in the stuff, yum...

I read threw most of the posts (skimmed some) and my quick question of the day is: Since the only thing i didnt use is raisins (i did use oranges though in a 5g batch) at certain increments do I need to add yeast nutrients or no? Looking at the carboy it seems to be fermenting nicely. Should I use the nutrients further down the road? I started it on Oct 2 2009.

WolfyJ said:

I read threw most of the posts (skimmed some) and my quick question of the day is: Since the only thing i didnt use is raisins (i did use oranges though in a 5g batch) at certain increments do I need to add yeast nutrients or no? Looking at the carboy it seems to be fermenting nicely. Should I use the nutrients further down the road? I started it on Oct 2 2009.

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The raisons add a small amount of nutrients as well as tannins. You really shouldnt need any other additional nutrients like you would with other "show" meads. The oranges and the raisons are plenty for it. I never use the bread yeast though...go with Lalvin D-47 or Kv-1116 for your yeast.

So, I put together a batch of this about two days ago. It's my first time fermenting a mead, so I'm not sure exactly what to expect, but I'm concerned something went askew.

I put this recipe together with a few tweaks. I used orange blossom honey instead of clover, to give it that citrusy finish, and instead of the recommended spices I used a pinch of saffron, cardamom and a drop or two of almond extract to give it a more eastern vibe.

Anyway, I sanitized everything, put it all together and pitched the yeast. Almost instantly it developed a tiny bit of foam. Anyway, I put the airlock on and put it in a dark spot that's approximately 70-72 degrees. By the next morning, all visible signs of fermentation ceased entirely. No bubbling in the airlock, no foam, no nothing. It's been 48 hours since initial yeast pitch and still no activity, aside from the few bubbles that popped up the first night I pitched.

So, did I kill the yeast? If so, is the batch spent? Do I have to just chuck it and start over? Or would it be possible to repitch new yeast and restart fermentation?

Any info you have would be great as mead is entirely new territory for me.

You have left out some important info...did you use any nutrients? How many pounds of honey? What was your starting OG? and in my mind, what YEASTdid you use? the bread yeast or something more akin for Mead like Lalvin D-47 ?

ruger12pk said:

You have left out some important info...did you use any nutrients? How many pounds of honey? What was your starting OG? and in my mind, what YEASTdid you use? the bread yeast or something more akin for Mead like Lalvin D-47 ?

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I made a slightly smaller batch. Used about two lbs of honey and scaled everything down proportionately, which gave me a bit more than half a gallon. Something small just in case it went awry.

I used the Fleichmann's bread yeast, as per the OPs instructions and didn't use any nutrients.

Are the nutrients of particular importance to mead?

CenturyStanding said:

I made a slightly smaller batch. Used about two lbs of honey and scaled everything down proportionately, which gave me a bit more than half a gallon. Something small just in case it went awry.

I used the Fleichmann's bread yeast, as per the OPs instructions and didn't use any nutrients.

Are the nutrients of particular importance to mead?

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Generally, yes, but not in this case. The raisins and oranges provide nutrients that are lacking in honey.

Since it's such a small batch, it would ferment out very quickly. Just in case it hasn't, give it a good swirl and shake it up a bit to resuspend any yeast that may have quit early.

YooperBrew said:

Generally, yes, but not in this case. The raisins and oranges provide nutrients that are lacking in honey.

Since it's such a small batch, it would ferment out very quickly. Just in case it hasn't, give it a good swirl and shake it up a bit to resuspend any yeast that may have quit early.

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I didn't include the raisins and oranges for my batch, so that might be what happened. If I boil a few raisins to sanitize, then add them to the fermentor and shake to resuspend the yeast, do you think that would help? Any other at home suggestions that don't require a trip to the LHBS?

I've been homebrewing beer for a good year and have never had an issue with not using the nutrients, but I suppose mead is a different ballgame altogether.

I wouldn't boil the raisins- they can go right in.

in this situation would raisins alone be enough nutrients? sorry, was just wondering out of curiosity.

WolfyJ said:

in this situation would raisins alone be enough nutrients? sorry, was just wondering out of curiosity.

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I honestly don't know. I've never had that problem, and it's always been just fine for me.

I recently finished 2 batches, one with bread yeast and one with D-47. While they both turned out great my wife and I both prefer the D-47 batch as it has a cleaner flavor. The bread yeast also seems more solvent but not bad.

And thats not really surprising. I mean, D-47 is like THE one to use in almost all Meads. The bread yeast by design would have to leave a bit of a yeasty flavor in the mix. I alternate between D-47, Kv-1116 and 1118 for the most part. Im also using the Ken shramm method of mead making. Im just making a nice JAOM but without the oranges until its still. I treat it like a regular show mead and then when its about a month old Ill rack it off the lees and transfer it into my brew bucket for the 2nd month with the oranges suspended in a hops bag....Ill get back to you on that..but I suspect it will be every bit as good if not better as I have more control over the amount of orange taste I want.

I made this on 7-19-09. It is my first mead. bottled it the other day. The sample was good. I took a bottle to a brew club meeting and it got some good reviews. At that meeting we have the best in show winner of the Michigan state fair there with his winning mead. I thought they both tasted good. His mead was not this recipe but it was a sweet mead.

Just wait until it's 6-8 months old. 3 months is pretty young for this stuff. It'll be even better.

Please forgive my noob questions. I honestly have no idea what I'm doing.

So, for my first attempt at a mead, I followed the JAOM...except, I didn't use bread yeast, but 1 teaspoon of Red Star Champagne. I didn't hydrate it - just tossed it in with the rest of the ingredients. It's been 3+ hours and no airlock activity, where everything I read said that fermentation would begin immediately. Is it because of the yeast? Should I have hydrated it first? Did I shock it with all that honey? If it doesn't start up soon, should I add bread yeast or will that just make it :cross: ?

Oh, I maybe should also mention that I'm using a 1 gal. plastic vinegar jug with a #6 and airlock. (Ran it through the dishwasher and sterilized so it doesn't hold any vinegary smells). Not sure if this is too O2 permeable, and if so, if it's okay to transfer to glass...

Probably shouldn't have decided to tweak my first mead since I'm pretty much clueless. Thanks for any advice.

I was just reading this about JOAM.......

Ég er einmitt með eitt gallon af Joes Ancient Orange Mead í gerjun
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-an ... ead-49106/
þar er notað brauðger og verðu mjöðurinn vonandi svolítið sætur og góður eftir nokkra mánuði.

_________________
___________________________
Í gerjun:Bæverskur hveitibjór
Á krana: Münchner Helles
Næst: Jólabjór, Märzen, Ljósöl

....... I didn't get much out of it though, except the link to HBT

Looks Icelandic. (DH is Swedish) Gerjun means fermentation; a krana is on tap.

Loosely translated, it says:

I have one gallon of Joes Ancient Orange Mead in fermentation (referral link)
(something... I think referring to inexpensive) hopefully a little sweet and good in a few months.

Oh, and in sig... up next is Jólabjór, which is Christmas beer.

Id give it a good 24 hours without disturbing it. I would have rehydrated the yeast first. of course its still early enough to go ahead and do that. But give it some more time and keep it warm something should happen soon!

Thank you for your reply. Still nothing happening in the airlock and not much of anything happening. If nothing happens today, would it hurt it to just add a t. of bread yeast like the recipe specifies instead of the champagne? Thanks!

Just wanted to update that the airlock now has activity. I guess champagne yeast just show up late to the party.

I do have one more question, though... I broke down and bought a gallon jug of Carlo Rossi Burgundy...using a bit of it to make boeuf bourguignon right now (took a little sip and it's surprisingly drinkable)...will it screw things up if I rack to that bottle right now so my mead isn't fermenting in a questionable plastic jug? Should I repitch a bit of yeast if I rack it again? Thanks.

To anyone stumbling upon this thread, and actually reading it this far , Just updating on my progress with this recipe.

After my first experiment, which I detailed in this thread, I've gotten some slightly better equipment (anything is a step up from milk jugs). My buddy gave me some 1gal glass jugs he found in the basement of a house he used to live in, and I got some proper air locks and stoppers from the home brew store.

Regarding my first experiment, btw, the last bottle of it remains on the shelf. I have to say that it really hasn't aged at all - the 2nd to last bottle (now gone) was almost identical to the first sip I took of the stuff after 2 months. So I don't know if it's the type of yeast or what but with regards to the other people saying it will age out to different tastes, I haven't had that experience. After 6 months on the shelf it is very nearly identical to when I bottled it.

I get the point of this recipe. It's the way they might have done it back when cars and street lights were horses and lanterns. Back when dudes and chicks were lords and ladies. And that's cool. I also like that it is an idiot-proof starting point for someone who's never brewed before. But for me after that first batch it's hard not to want to work towards some improvement in the recipe. So this current batch isn't a true JAOM. I kind of think that's the point, though... this recipe is such a great place to start, it begs you to put your own spin on it. Just don't call it JAOM when you're done!

My recipe for this batch was the same as the JAOM posted here, except:

• I used 3lb honey per gallon.
• I juiced the orange and discarded all large solids (left the pulp). Sorry, but I've just had enough of the pithy rind taste to last me a while.
• I added the juice of half a pomagranate (aiming for something festive for Christmastime).
• I made 2 separate gallons - one with bread yeast per JAOM, one with wine yeast. (Just to experiment and see if I can tell a difference in the final product.)
• I used a yeast nutrient.

Equipment-wise, in addition to the "new" (60 year old) glass jugs with real stoppers and air locks, I also picked up some of that no-rinse sanitizer and I have to say that is really convenient stuff. Well worth the cost.

So I melted the honey in water, put in all of the ingredients, made sure the temp of the solution was reasonable for the yeast, pitched the 2 yeasts, and shook the heck out of both jugs.

12 hours later it was clear that I'd over-filled the jugs... lesson learned the hard way DEFINITELY leave some head space in the jug for the first few days. Both of my air locks got all fouled and burped half-fermented orange pulp all over the wall of my wife's home office, but she took it all in stride (bless her) and eventually I got them swapped out and everything is tidy and happy now.

The born-on date is October 10, so it's been a week and a half and both gallons are still bubbling away happy as can be. They are in a dark closet where the temp is 60F - 65F. I will post here when they are done and tasted if anyone is curious how this recipe turned out.

My next experiment (just put up on Sunday) is apple cider - I'll post about that in the cider forum.

I made this recipe last night, I followed the directions exactly except I used a different brand yeast, and added a few dried cherries. Its about 24 hours later and I am getting no airlock activity. The only other detail that may be useful is a bunch of the honey is sitting on the bottom of the carboy. Wondering if I should pitch more yeast, or wait a few more days and see what happens?

lthursdayl said:

I made this recipe last night, I followed the directions exactly except I used a different brand yeast, and added a few dried cherries. Its about 24 hours later and I am getting no airlock activity. The only other detail that may be useful is a bunch of the honey is sitting on the bottom of the carboy. Wondering if I should pitch more yeast, or wait a few more days and see what happens?

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I'm no expert but I would suggest waiting a day or two and see if the yeast take hold. Make sure your temp is above 60F and below 80F or so. If you can easily take the airlock off and seal it, shake it up a bit or stir it to try to mix the honey into the solution.

But the bottom line is that you have yeast and you have sugar, so something should happen sooner or later - the biggest issue as I understand it is that you want your yeast to establish quickly to dominate any wild yeast or worse yet bacteria.

I think in general you want to dissolve your honey pretty well before getting started. The times I've done this recipe I've used 1 part honey to 1 part water (by volume), warmed up the mixture on the stove top (be careful not to get it too hot - you don't want this anywhere near boiling, just warm) and stirred until the honey was in suspension completely. Then when I pour that into the fermentor and top off with water and "shake the heck out of it" it mixes quite nicely.

Good luck - post back with what happens!

Its soon enough Id be giving that batch a monsterous and vigourous stir! get that honey homogenized into the solution and also to whip some air into it....Yeast need the o2 to grow and that honey needs to be mixed in sooner rather than later...

Mine separated because I added cold water. The honey was all on the bottom. It also took a few days to start but after a couple months (maybe three), it fermented out completely and is awesome. I think patience is the key. Remember, one of the primary instructions is to not touch it...

I have to admit I shook it last night....woke up this morning and had movement in the airlock about aver 15 seconds. Not going to touch it again for two months. Hope this did not mess it up too badly.

I really need to get some honey and make some more of this. Got some wine yeast to try this time for a drier mead.

I tried D-47 in my last batch. I am exicted to see how it turns out.

IrregularPulse said:

I really need to get some honey and make some more of this. Got some wine yeast to try this time for a drier mead.

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this keeps coming up. if you read the original recipe, he explains that it was developed specifically for bread yeast. if you try to replace it with brewing yeast, you take your chances. i've tried it a couple times and it never really came out right.
but feel free to experiment and let us know how it works.

I've only read the post by yooper. I don't see how a difference yeast strain would be "taking chances" though. Just give it a different profile. Bread yeast is just faster starting.
AS far as "being developed", it's honey and water. Don't see how that was "developed specifically" for anything particular yeast......?