Spark Ignition for Brutus

Found a good buy on a nice control panel enclosure so I can seal everything into one panel.

Trying to draw on the cover where all the cut-outs will be for the controllers and switches is a PITA.

Couple of lingering questions and parts to get.

Spark modules: For the SPARK wire, does this wire need any special insulation or can I use regular 14 AWG stranded copper hook-up wire? I know some have used actual car spark plug wires, but these are predetermined length, and have those huge boots, and would need to get cut to get a spade terminal on anyway.

For the Flex Gas Tubing. I've check the local HW stores, and none carry them. I did find a few that were too long and listed the MAX BTU rating around 60k. My burners are 100k as best I can tell. I think I should probably just order these tube off mCmaster Carr. THis part number looked good 5891K53. 24" length, 1/2" male fittings. didnt rate for BTU capability (thought there was a link around here somewhere that specified BTU ratings for these connecting hoses based on length and diameter).
Can anyone verify that these would work? Seems like they should.

Sealant: Checked the nearest auto supply store and couldn't find the permatex #2 that was suggested. Anyone got a part number on mCmaster to add to my order? They've got Permatex blue, ultra-blue, red, and ultra-copper versions.

Many Thanks!

TD

My solution to a watertight box to house the ignition modules outside of the control box. Most of the electrical enclosures were just too expensive so I came up with this idea. I bought a 50 cal ammo box and painted it silver. I'll mount it on the bottom of my stand on a brace where it will be safe from the heat. I plan on drilling a hole in the bottom of the ammo can to route the wires for the ignition modules. I'll have the top of the ammo can facing out. I know it won't be the prettiest thing, but should work for an airtight seal and keep the modules away from the other electronics in the control box.



I'm writing about my build here: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/RIMS.html

Project update-

Still haven't finished my rig. Been held up at the welder - it's a side job, and other work has taken priority. Rig is nearly fully welded. Just need to add the part for the pump mounting and a few other minor things.

As it turns out, my enclosure is big enough to put all the electrical parts inside.

As I turn to wiring and plumbing the rig, I had a few more questions..

Spark wires - it has been mentioned that there is a length limitation. One end has a spark plug type connection, the other a spade lug. Any source for a spark wire? Can I use STRANDED SINGLE-CONDUCTOR WIRE, UL 1015, 14 AWG, 600 VAC ? Can this wire be run in a conduit along-side other wires without causing problems (induction) in the other wires?

Propane Plumbing - I was planning to use 1/2 black pipe with flex tube connecting the burners (MCmaster #5891K53) to the valves (HLT & MT) and the supply pipe (BK). My burners are 10 tip cast Low Pressure LP burners. I certainly. I would like some suggestions on a regulator that can run all this, and a hose that will allow me to connect the propane regulator to the black pipe. Any alternatives to the aluminum tubing for the pilot burners for something more flexible and easy to work with?

I hope to have a solution to these last few questions so I can place my final (hopefully!) parts order and then start assembling the rig!

Many thanks!

TD

TrickyDick said:

Spark wires - it has been mentioned that there is a length limitation. One end has a spark plug type connection, the other a spade lug. Any source for a spark wire? Can I use STRANDED SINGLE-CONDUCTOR WIRE, UL 1015, 14 AWG, 600 VAC ? Can this wire be run in a conduit along-side other wires without causing problems (induction) in the other wires?

Propane Plumbing - I was planning to use 1/2 black pipe with flex tube connecting the burners (MCmaster #5891K53) to the valves (HLT & MT) and the supply pipe (BK). My burners are 10 tip cast Low Pressure LP burners. I certainly. I would like some suggestions on a regulator that can run all this, and a hose that will allow me to connect the propane regulator to the black pipe. Any alternatives to the aluminum tubing for the pilot burners for something more flexible and easy to work with?

I hope to have a solution to these last few questions so I can place my final (hopefully!) parts order and then start assembling the rig!

Many thanks!

TD

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My Honeywell IP Kit came with a spark plug wire - but I assume that any automotive one will do. Just cut off one boot and crimp on a 1/4" quick disconnect. I would NOT run this wire in a conduit with any other wires. I think you are just asing for trouble...

It sounds like you are going to put the Honeywell control board in your main panel. I'm not sure if you are going to be putting any sensitive electrical components in there too - but you might have an issue with EMI. I am currently trying to work out issues with my BrewTroller. My Honeywell board and ignitor are on the complete opposite sides of my single tier from my control panel - yet I still have issues.

As far as a regulator is concerned - you will need a low pressure, liquid propane regulator for your 10 tip wok burner. I got mine from B3. Since I also run a high pressure "turkey fryer" or "banjo" burner for my boil kettle - I just put the low pressure regulator just before the Honeywell valve. I have a 0-30PSI adjustable regulator that feeds the whole system. You can find them on Amazon for $15 or so.


Mylo

TrickyDick said:

Spark wires - it has been mentioned that there is a length limitation. One end has a spark plug type connection, the other a spade lug. Any source for a spark wire? Can I use STRANDED SINGLE-CONDUCTOR WIRE, UL 1015, 14 AWG, 600 VAC ? Can this wire be run in a conduit along-side other wires without causing problems (induction) in the other wires?

Click to expand...

That wire has a few thousand volts on it so the wire you intend to use would be anything but adquate. You can buy the wire from Honeywell. Like Mylo suggested do not run the spark wire near any sensitive electronic device if you want it to work properly. Lastly, for heavens sake do not mount the S8610U in your control panel if you want anything to work properly. As a matter of fact, mount the S8610U as far away from the control panel as possible, shield all of your wires and utilize good grounding techniques.

Update -

got some spark plug wires to use for the spark ignition modules. These have a metal core. I think automotive cables use a different core to prevent EMI? What is the issue with the S8610U being mounted far away from the control panels all about? EMI as well? I've already got them mounted in there. I'm going to see what happens before I make and changes at this point. Would switching to automotive spark plug wires resolve the situation?

I also bought a BBQ ignitor that a 1.5V AA battery powers. It came with no other parts. I was wondering what the best way to hook this up to my Boil Kettle burner might be. The terminals on this device will only permit connection of a small wire, like a 22ga speaker wire with spade terminals.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to mount the pilot-ignition-sensor module to the ring burner. I've tapped the boss and I can not fit a screw into that. My modules are a bit different that the photo Korndog posted. His modules seem to have the mounting holes on the long side of the module, whereas mine are on the short side. I have a feeling I'm going to be adjusting those no matter what I do.

Had a novel idea for adjusting burner height by using stirrups on which the burners will rest upon. The stirrups can be adjusted up and down so I can fine tune the burner height and, also if I ended up switching to a different (high-pressure) burner for the boil kettle down the road.

TD

Mob_Barley said:

My solution to a watertight box to house the ignition modules outside of the control box. Most of the electrical enclosures were just too expensive so I came up with this idea. I bought a 50 cal ammo box and painted it silver. I'll mount it on the bottom of my stand on a brace where it will be safe from the heat. I plan on drilling a hole in the bottom of the ammo can to route the wires for the ignition modules. I'll have the top of the ammo can facing out. I know it won't be the prettiest thing, but should work for an airtight seal and keep the modules away from the other electronics in the control box.

I'm writing about my build here: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/RIMS.html

Click to expand...

Nice looking system!

I have a ammo box in my garage that I could modify for this purpose should I need to.

Are we really sure that the spark modules emit EMI and this does cause problem with the temp controllers? My temp controller is a bit different that the Lonnie Mac LOVE controller, still runs on silicon though. I wonder if shielding would be helpful? I may be able to get my hands on some nice lead shielding....

TrickyDick said:

Update -

got some spark plug wires to use for the spark ignition modules. These have a metal core. I think automotive cables use a different core to prevent EMI? What is the issue with the S8610U being mounted far away from the control panels all about? EMI as well? I've already got them mounted in there. I'm going to see what happens before I make and changes at this point. Would switching to automotive spark plug wires resolve the situation?

I also bought a BBQ ignitor that a 1.5V AA battery powers. It came with no other parts. I was wondering what the best way to hook this up to my Boil Kettle burner might be. The terminals on this device will only permit connection of a small wire, like a 22ga speaker wire with spade terminals.

Right now I am trying to figure out how to mount the pilot-ignition-sensor module to the ring burner. I've tapped the boss and I can not fit a screw into that. My modules are a bit different that the photo Korndog posted. His modules seem to have the mounting holes on the long side of the module, whereas mine are on the short side. I have a feeling I'm going to be adjusting those no matter what I do.

Had a novel idea for adjusting burner height by using stirrups on which the burners will rest upon. The stirrups can be adjusted up and down so I can fine tune the burner height and, also if I ended up switching to a different (high-pressure) burner for the boil kettle down the road.

TD

Click to expand...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but you will have the same issue with the spark ignition or BBQ igniter. They both generate a high voltage to produce a spark which in turn generates Electromagnetic Interference which is not friendly to all things electronic. If you purchased automotive sparkplug wire to work with your S8610U ignition module, try it without damaging the spark plug wire because you may end up taking it back. Automotive sparkplug wire has resistance. I am not sure, but the resistance in the spark plug wire may prevent a spark from forming at your pilot burner. The only way to know is by trying it. Having the S8610U in the control panel is not wise. You are putting a huge generator of EMI next to your electronics. Even if the anti-EMI spark plug wires work, it's not going to solve your EMI issue because the S8610U itself will radiate the EMI.

Sawdustguy knows what he is talking about. He has helped me with the EMI/RF issue I have trouble with. I designed my brewery with three S8610's in a control panel along with the gas valves and BCS-460. Looks great (to me anyway) but don't work. Been a major PITA trying to resolve.

I'd suggest putting the 8610's far away from any other electronic devices. And save yourself the aggravation.

Here is a shot of mine under construction,

What have you finally worked out for the ignition and BCS-460 installations, are they still in the same location under the common cover, or separated in different enclosures?.

Hmm-

What are the symptoms of EMI problems that I might expect?

I can start designing a plan for the spark cables, and BBQ ignitor to go into another box, but was thinking wrapping some lead around the temp controllers and over the ignition modules might be easier and see if I have problems.

In the likely event that I WILL be doing this, I was wondering if placing BOTH the ignition modules into a second ammo-box enclosure is a good idea - will the 2 ignition modules produce EMI problems with one another, or will I need 2 boxes?

To Mob Barley - how did you mount your ignition module(s) inside the ammo box? Any more photos?

Well this gives me another project to work on I guess!

Also, any recommendations on leak testing the propane manifold?and all the fittings?

Also, any water protection needed for the propane valves where the electrical connection to the ignition module is made? Seems like mine are facing the sky and could get water spashed there...

Thanks!

TD

TrickyDick said:

Hmm-

What are the symptoms of EMI problems that I might expect?

I can start designing a plan for the spark cables, and BBQ ignitor to go into another box, but was thinking wrapping some lead around the temp controllers and over the ignition modules might be easier and see if I have problems.

In the likely event that I WILL be doing this, I was wondering if placing BOTH the ignition modules into a second ammo-box enclosure is a good idea - will the 2 ignition modules produce EMI problems with one another, or will I need 2 boxes?

To Mob Barley - how did you mount your ignition module(s) inside the ammo box? Any more photos?

Well this gives me another project to work on I guess!

Also, any recommendations on leak testing the propane manifold?and all the fittings?

Also, any water protection needed for the propane valves where the electrical connection to the ignition module is made? Seems like mine are facing the sky and could get water spashed there...

Thanks!

TD

Click to expand...

Putting the S8610U's in metal boxes that are well grounded is the right thing to do. You do not have to wrap lead around the temperature controllers if they are mounted in a well grounded control panel. If the connections are facing upward the S8610U is upside down. As a matter of fact the instructions make mention of this.

Here is a picture of how I mounted the ignition modules inside the ammo box.

And here is the latest on my RIMS build: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/RIMS-Build-Page-4.html

While I'm here, does anyone know some good links on the forum for help on wiring the control box? I'm severely electrically/electronically challenged...

Sawdustguy said:

Putting the S8610U's in metal boxes that are well grounded is the right thing to do. You do not have to wrap lead around the temperature controllers if they are mounted in a well grounded control panel. If the connections are facing upward the S8610U is upside down. As a matter of fact the instructions make mention of this.

Click to expand...

I'll try and post some photos tonight (resizing is a PITA).

My CP is well grounded, though if what I am reading about EMI generated by the ignition modules causing malfunctioning of the temp controllers is true, then I don't think grounding is going to fix that issue. I'll need to check the wiring diagram on the temp controllers, but at the moment, I do not believe that they have a grounding terminal on them and are made of plastic. I'll double check tonight - note that I am using two Toho J4 PID controllers. (also, no ground on the BBQ ignition module either. I may just mount this in outboard fashion on the frame...)

As far as the terminals facing upward, I was speaking about the Honeywell VR8200 (?) Furnace valves, not the ignition modules, which are in a watertight NEMA-4X enclosure, and therefore can be mounted in any direction. Sorry about the confusion on that. The valves have the 3 control wires + ground wire, gas in/out & pilot connections. The control wires connect on the gas outlet side, which points up in my installation. I assume I am going to need to shield these in some fashion....

Also, still wondering what the EMI symptoms are.

Thanks!

TD

With my BCS-460 I found that when I energized the ignition module I would loose network connectivity and at the same time cause issues with my BCS web control.

TrickyDick said:

I'll try and post some photos tonight (resizing is a PITA).

My CP is well grounded, though if what I am reading about EMI generated by the ignition modules causing malfunctioning of the temp controllers is true, then I don't think grounding is going to fix that issue. I'll need to check the wiring diagram on the temp controllers, but at the moment, I do not believe that they have a grounding terminal on them and are made of plastic. I'll double check tonight - note that I am using two Toho J4 PID controllers. (also, no ground on the BBQ ignition module either. I may just mount this in outboard fashion on the frame...)

As far as the terminals facing upward, I was speaking about the Honeywell VR8200 (?) Furnace valves, not the ignition modules, which are in a watertight NEMA-4X enclosure, and therefore can be mounted in any direction. Sorry about the confusion on that. The valves have the 3 control wires + ground wire, gas in/out & pilot connections. The control wires connect on the gas outlet side, which points up in my installation. I assume I am going to need to shield these in some fashion....

Also, still wondering what the EMI symptoms are.

Thanks!

TD

Click to expand...

I have been an electrical engineer for many years and grounding and shielding is everything. Ground loops act like antennas. All your grounds should come together at one point. You can enclose your S8610U's in a metal enclosure but unless it is well grounded you have wasted your time.

Thanks for all the help.

This is probably one of the biggest projects I've ever started.

I've taken a bunch of photos, and I will post them to my gallery very soon. I need to resize them first though and that is going to take a bit of effort.

I have finished wiring and plumbing my system. Tomorrow I plan to leak test the propane manifold and all the gas fittings. If all is good, then I will run some cleaner through the whole system followed by some rinse.

I DID end up placing some lead in my control panel to shield things from any potential EMI. Frankly, I am not sure the problem is really EMI, but I want to take no chances. I also am not particularly interested in re-engineering the whole thing and re-wiring, etc to re-locate the spark generators unless absolutely necessary. I snapped a bunch of photos, and again, I'll post them as soon as I get the chance. I did decide to relocate the manual BBQ ignition module outside the control panel. I will put a light in its place to indicate the system is on. It will be a while before the BBQ ignitor is properly mounted. Now that its back from the shop, welding and casual transportation is out of the question. Not sure how I will end up mounting it to the brew-stand yet. Had a hard enough time drilling out the control panel steel, and the square frame steel is more than twice the thickness...

I had planned to brew this weekend, but I screwed up on my online order it seems, and I'm missing the flavor hops! If I have an appropriate substitute, I may still brew IF there are no leaks, and IF the planets are all in alignment. It's probably not going to happen for a couple of weeks as I'm headed for a trip to Ireland next weekend, so first chance to brew might not be until late September or early October.

Have a quickie question. Before I tighten the compression fittings on the the thermocouples, I was wondering if I should use teflon tape on the compression threads since the compression fitting and cap are all stainless. I don't want any galling, but I also want the compression fitting to seal properly. Any advice is appreciated.

I'll try to get the photos posted tomorrow. Looks pretty damn nice I think.

TD

TrickyDick said:

Have a quickie question. Before I tighten the compression fittings on the the thermocouples, I was wondering if I should use teflon tape on the compression threads since the compression fitting and cap are all stainless. I don't want any galling, but I also want the compression fitting to seal properly. Any advice is appreciated.

Click to expand...

You will not experience galling. It's a good thing you asked before using teflon tape. I forget where I read it on the Swagelok site but they emphatically warn you not to use Teflon tape or liquid thread seal.

Joint compound (pipe "dope") or thread seal tape (PTFE tape, or Teflon tape) is not applied to a compression fitting's threads. Joint compound and teflon tape act to seal the threads from the water pressure in normal threaded connections, but serve little purpose in compression seals and may actually serve to weaken them. The compression is the means of sealing the joint, not the sealing of the threads themselves. Pipe compound or PTFE tape frequently leads to leaks in the fitting; in the case of teflon tape, it allows a gap to form between the compression ring and nut. Joint compound is sometimes applied to the ferrule or olive to seal imperfections in the fitting, but really serves no purpose as the sealing is enacted through the compression ring itself. Rarely does joint compound or teflon tape compensate for the loss of an air/watertight seal if the compression ring becomes "ovalled" (due to over-tightening while in a misoriented position, in relation to the compression nut), or if there is some factory defect in the product. In these instances, the compression fittings are simply replaced.

Click to expand...

Thanks!

Got pretty much everything done now.

Still need to test the propane manifold for leaks, and then run some cleaner through everything.

Then its on to testing to see if the ignition modules are going to wreak havok with my temperature controllers or not. I've grounded everything very well, and I even put some shielding into the panel. Hopefully it'll work, but if not, then its back to the drawing board.

Didn't order enough Silicone tubing the first time around, and I'm one piece short.

First batch is going (mostly) to the guys that helped me build everything, which is going to be an amber ale.

Can't wait to start using this thing. I do hope it makes a vast improvement in my brewday.

TD

Important last question here (until I have more problems or questions).

I still have to leak test the propane setup, but it occurred to me that it might not be possible to leak test the Honeywell valves UNLESS they are activated. The Main and Pilot valves are normally closed. What is the safest way to test this all?

I can obviously test all the other fittings beside the output side of the 2 honeywell valves.

TD

Tried it out last night.

Very excited!

Have one issue I was hoping to get some advice about.

No propane leaks. Wish I had mounted manifold on the inner side of the rig however...
Burners all ignite properly, though still may need to adjust burner height - it can be hard to see the flame tips outdoors and this mini burners are darn powerful.

So problem I may possibly have is that one of. The spark controlled burners will cut off. I think I may need to adjust the pilot burner pressure? It reignites when it goes out, but only stays lit for about 20 seconds before cycling again. The other spark controlled burner runs fine so far. Any advice? Repositioning the pilot assembly is gonna be tricky, though I wonder if the flowing propane from the main burner could contribute to the pilot burner going out.

Anyone versed in the fine tuning of these honeywell valves please lend some advice.

Those temp controllers I got are pretty difficult to figure out how to program, and what is worse, I cannot figure if there is a way to use Farenheit instead of Celcius !!!!

RH

Here is a link to the gas valve manual http://customer.honeywell.com/techlit/pdf/PackedLit/69-0423.pdf, adjust pilot first to get the flame size shown in the example, too much flow and flame moves off flame rod. Then with down stream valve wide open, adjust the Honeywell valve pressure regulator to get maximum fire size you want to run at. A suggestion for pilot mounting is to place a wood block on top of the burner and adjust pilot to just touch underside of block, and be 1/2" away from side of burner. The main idea is the flame from the pilot rises at about a 45 degree angle and should just clear edge of the burner and extend over one or more of the burner openings. This way when burner is running it will not interfere with the pilot flame and flame sensor.

That's great! Thanks. I probably will not have time to do this until the weekend, but had a question about your recommendation. Is there a way to turn on the pilot light only, without having the main burner light as well? It seems that the temp controller tells the spark module when to turn on the burner and ignite. I can easily adjust the temp controller to cause ignition, but then this results in the pilot, then main burners to ignite. If I go with the wooden block trick, when the main burner ignites, its going to lite up the block.. Maybe a cement block or a brick could be used I suppose, but really wondering if there is a way to manually operation the valves..

Thanks again.

RH

Still no photos to post. Got plenty on the computer, but need to resize them for uploading. Maybe in a day or so I'll be able to post them.

I discovered that the spark ignition unit was cutting off the burners BECAUSE the temp controllers I have have PID with overshoot protection. The are also self-tuning and will learn your system. Probably only useful for the HLT I think. Mash tun is going to vary from batch to batch based on what's brewing, so probably going to turn off the PID and just have a dumb switch. Need a degree in japaneese and advanaced manufacturing engineering and calculus in order to figure out how to program these controllers other than just setting the basic functions...

So anyway, seems everything is working great with the spark ignition! I tested it all out and ran cleaner through everything last weekend. There seems to be no issues with EMI whatsoever at this point.

Setting the pilot and main burner adjustment screws seemed to make little difference to me in the flame appearance and height. Regardless, I can always adjust my burner height, and adjust the valve settings later fairly easily. I'm just going to see it works for a few batches. I think I'm going to want to add some flame shrouds at some point.

Discovered that I need to modify the stand a bit. Might be a big PITA, but it's got to happen. It seems my control panel arm is too short. Heat from the HLT seems to heat up the control box enclosure and will likely melt/sizzle the contents. I can always heat the HLT water to 170 using the boil kettle and then pump over to the HLT. I think the intermittent heat applied to maintain the temp will be fine. The extended heating there is what seems to make the control panel enclosure get too hot.

Was planning to brew today, but just gonna relax and watch some football.

Thanks for all the support! Special thanks for Kladue! You're welcome to some free beer next time you're in town!

TD

If you are using kegs then why not cut a vent opening on the back side like this http://picasaweb.google.com/kevin.ladue/BoilKettle#5225673141104801778, it should direct the heat away from the controls and make the burners work better.

Resuscitating an old thread here, but I am looking for some insight and wisdom about how to get the most out of the burners on my rig. I am using the BG-14 type burner that I got from Brewers Hardware with NG and am using their NG valve/orifice, which has a 1/8" ID. On their site, they report these are designed to run at 11" WC and will produce 60,000 btu; whether this is for NG, LP or both is not clear. I have also seen other sites that list these as 100,000 btu burners...though that is likely for high pressure LP.

I control my burners using a BCS-460 to activate Baso BG1100MAAK-1G furnace ignition control modules that run Honeywell VR8345M valves and direct spark ignition and separate flame sensor. I've been running it for about two years, and it works nicely.

Then I encountered a thread on supercharging a low pressure NG burner to insure complete combustion and gain more heat output. This got me thinking, and I contemplated the supercharger modification. However, I decided that as a first step I would explore whether I was getting all I could out of my burners as implemented on my current stand.

A little research and some measurements and I learned that, with my valve outlet pressure setting maxed out, I was supplying NG to my burners at 5.5" WC (consistent with their specs), though they are reported to be designed for 11" WC. My NG inlet pressure is 11.7" WC, so I was able to step up my outlet pressure to 7" through 11" WC by changing the NG spring on my value for the LP one. This worked to jack up the flame, for sure, but it also seemed that as I increased the pressure in 1" WC steps that it progressively reduced the number of burner ports that generated/sustained a flame and progressively burned more rich, as evidenced by ever increasing orange amidst the flames.

I'll post here short videos of the burn attempts at 7", 9" and 11" WC. In the 7" WC film, you will see that I wave the flame to get all ports to light, which they do but which the burner does not sustain. In the 11" WC, I get ignition but the burner flames out and activates the ignition control shut off.

I seek any insight or perspective any of you might have to share. I have it that, according to tables available to gas fitters, 11" WC with this burner and orifice should be putting me close to 80,000 btu potential, and that I should get 60,000 btu at 5" WC (thanks hockeyman!). I am going to clock my gas meter to see where I am at with all this when I get the time.

For now, I am wondering if I am just throwing more pressure at this burner than it can manage. Clearly, with the pressure set higher, the point where gas can ignite is higher. This may require resetting the location of my spark ignitor, and it may be a difficult optimization. It has also been suggested that changing to a pilot light would ease the process of providing ignition to the gas at the higher ignition points the accompany higher pressure.

What do you all think? If I pursue a pilot, I can use the pilot light port already on my valves and would use the intermittent pilot strategy, so I may be asking for advice on how to convert my direct spark ignition/sensing in the most cost effective and reliable way (recognize that cost effective and reliable may be in tension with each other).

Thanks for completing a long read. Fire away...

View attachment 7 inches WC.mov

View attachment 9 inches WC.mov

View attachment 11 inches WC.mov

I sold my propane rig a while back and brew indoors on electric now. I wish you luck. I had plenty of issues with propane and getting it tuned just right. I finally got it working, but it was not any fun. If anyone wants to buy my dual probe digital manometer let me know.

TD