Home brew Vs. Commercial

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Curious about the differences in quality. If you feel some of your brews are better than commercial than explain why. Small batch size? No filtering? Carboys Vs. Conicals? Freshness?

This is something I would really like to explore. I have had some 1bbl nano brews that are very commercial tasting and home brews that are better and vice versa. The real goal is to find if there is something from the small stage to apply to a larger stage that will keep the "amazingness" coming.

I feel this is a great question for those considering Nanos who want to keep what they had; that kept others from drinking larger brewers. Ideally like a lot of us I think a nano would be awesome but I don't wont to sacrifice the beer I am making on smaller scale.

So is the loss in quality a size and process problem, or can it be avoided.

Thanks.
 
If I have a hombrew that is better than a commercial, I would attribute it to the fact that homebrewers have the luxury of small batch experimentation. The batch size and money involved really can limit a craft brewery. Also, the more experienced a drinker is with craft brewers who make cutting edge stuff, the less likely one would be to dismiss the quality of commercial beer. This is simply my opinion and not to be perceived as fact! :)
 
All my beers are better then the store stuff, that's why I brew. Freshness is the key IMO.
Some beers I can't brew, so I buy them (PBR, Genesee Cream).
For example my IPAs are way better then the commercial ones, they can't compete with mine at all. I will have my IPAs in my kegerator 4 weeks after I brewed it with dry hops inside the keg, made fresh, exactly from the ingredients I like. Many times I will dry hop them with fresh hops straight from my garden, and when I say "fresh" I mean I just picked them of the vine and put them straight into my keg. There is no commercial IPA in the world that can compete with that.
On the other hand, I can't brew a better light lager or a cream ale, so I will buy Genesee Cream and PBR. These beers are better when they mass produced and they would require me to much equipment - so I buy them.
 
VonMessa said:
Simple.

You made it yourself, that is why it is better :rockin:
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Exactly, same reason your farts don't smell and your baby isn't ugly.

Objectively, to be able to consistently produce beer comparable to a good craft brewer is something the majority of homebrewers do not ever achieve.

Some of the best beer I have had is homebrew, but also some of the worst. If I am in an area where I want a good beer but don't know the commercial or homebrewers (eg, flying blind), I'll get a commercial beer. That's playing the odds.
 
Generally speaking I like my homebrew more. It's not a matter of liking it more because I made it. But rather because I can make a beer with the ingredients I want and have it taste exactly what I want it to taste like.

For example there are some great IPAs out there to buy from commercial brewers. But I can't find one with the exact hop profile that I prefer, or with the dryness I prefer or the mouthfeel I prefer.

But then there are styles that I don't brew as well as others and can easily say that there are better commercial examples available to buy.
 
yep, mine are better because they're tailored to my personal preferences. most craft brews are a bit too intense for my tastes, so I skip a lot of the specialty malts and heavy-handed hop additions and make beers that no one else is really brewing besides me.

freshness is also huge, i have the same kind of IPA program as scooby going and he's right, commercial IPA's are just in a different ballpark now.
 
I only make what I like, the way I like it....how could it get better. My single greatest comolement to a brewer it that their beer is as good or better than mine...same thinking.
 
remilard said:
Exactly, same reason your farts don't smell and your baby isn't ugly.
Click to expand...

:p

Jerry: Is it me or was that the ugliest baby you have ever seen? .... Elaine: Some ugly baby, huh? Ben: What did you say? Elaine: I said, uh, some snuggly ...
Jerry Seinfeld
Episode 21: The Hamptons
 
remilard said:
Exactly, same reason your farts don't smell and your baby isn't ugly.

Objectively, to be able to consistently produce beer comparable to a good craft brewer is something the majority of homebrewers do not ever achieve.

Some of the best beer I have had is homebrew, but also some of the worst. If I am in an area where I want a good beer but don't know the commercial or homebrewers (eg, flying blind), I'll get a commercial beer. That's playing the odds.
Click to expand...

My farts are bad enough to justify the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania to require me to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

All babies are ugly. They have spent 9 months as a submarine in a dark, wet place. They come out screaming, wrinkled, covered in goo with pointed heads.

My homebrew, on the other hand, always turns out good.

The only reason a homebrewer could not achieve the consistency of a craft brewery is for lack of trying.
 
Scooby_Brew said:
. . . On the other hand, I can't brew a better light lager or a cream ale, so I will buy Genesee Cream and PBR. These beers are better when they mass produced and they would require me to much equipment - so I buy them.
Click to expand...

Just curious, I can understand not being set up for lagers, but why would a cream ale be a problem?
 
I think the fact is, there are commercial beers not as good as many homebrews, and many homebrews that are not as good as commercial versions.

Both categories require a certain amount of skill. If you assume both people have the same amount of skill, then Homebrew will have an edge because the homebrewer can tailor his beer to suit his tastes, while the commercial brewer has to please a great many people (or convince them to like his beer).
 
In my own opinion(humbly, of course), trying to copy a commercial beer is totally silly for a homebrewer.

It defeats the entire premise and philosophy of homebrewing one's own beer. I could sit here and reverse-engineer commercial brews all day long, but to what end? To reinvent the wheel?

As others have said, the edge that a homebrewer has over any big name or craft brewery is the ability to tailor a beer any way he/she wants. I brew to please myself and cater to my tastes. If others happen to like my creations, it is a bonus but not the goal of the exercise.

I have the ability to conjure up any type of beer I desire, why try to duplicate another person's idea?
If I want a Yard's IPA, I'll buy one.

I have a full machine shop in my basement. That doesn't mean that if I wanted a Corvette, I wouldn't try to build one.
I would just buy it.
 
VonMessa said:
It defeats the entire premise and philosophy of homebrewing one's own beer. I could sit here and reverse-engineer commercial brews all day long, but to what end? To reinvent the wheel?
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There is no single premise or philosophy of homebrewing. You're inventing silly rules to make yourself feel more important.

A great reason to clone a beer is to see if you can. Maybe you clone a beer because your friend says you can't and you're a prideful jerk and can't let him be right (I am the prideful jerk in this instance!) Maybe you clone a beer to see if your techniques and quality translate to those of a commercial brewery you enjoy.

I've had more bad homebrew than I've had good. I have a couple of friends who are phenomenal brewers and I really do appreciate their beer, but for the most part, the great craft brewers are putting out a better product. That said, there are enough breweries in town that make bad beer that I know it isn't so cut and dry. Most people prefer their own beer because of pride, and I get that. It is awesome to have a good beer that is your own.
 
VonMessa said:
In my own opinion(humbly, of course), trying to copy a commercial beer is totally silly for a homebrewer.

It defeats the entire premise and philosophy of homebrewing one's own beer. I could sit here and reverse-engineer commercial brews all day long, but to what end? To reinvent the wheel?
Click to expand...

It can be MUCH cheaper to brew your own. I can make Bells 3-hearted for about 1/3 the price that I can buy it at the party store downtown.


Denny said:
Cream ale requires temp control just like a lager does.
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But it doesn't require temps so low that a swamp cooler wouldn't suffice, whereas a lager generally likes near freezing temps.
 
carnevoodoo said:
There is no single premise or philosophy of homebrewing. You're inventing silly rules to make yourself feel more important.

A great reason to clone a beer is to see if you can. Maybe you clone a beer because your friend says you can't and you're a prideful jerk and can't let him be right (I am the prideful jerk in this instance!) Maybe you clone a beer to see if your techniques and quality translate to those of a commercial brewery you enjoy.

I've had more bad homebrew than I've had good. I have a couple of friends who are phenomenal brewers and I really do appreciate their beer, but for the most part, the great craft brewers are putting out a better product. That said, there are enough breweries in town that make bad beer that I know it isn't so cut and dry. Most people prefer their own beer because of pride, and I get that. It is awesome to have a good beer that is your own.
Click to expand...

At what point did I make up rules? The whole point of homebrewing is that there are no rules, which makes it a beautiful thing.

I find it a waste of time to put the time and effort into making a beer that has already been made for me.

It is you, yourself that is a self-proclaimed prideful jerk that feels compelled to parrot other's creations to prove your importance to your friends. Your words, not mine.

I brew for my own enjoyment, not to prove my worth to others.
 
Homebrew. Show me a commercially available, American-craft, ordinary or special bitters (my favorite style), or a mild. My IESB's are unique, and fresher than any IPA (except for cask ales available only at tap houses). I don't pay one cent in (sin) taxes for my beer.

Commercial. Many Belgian styles yet to explore.
 
VonMessa said:
At what point did I make up rules? The whole point of homebrewing is that there are no rules, which makes it a beautiful thing.

I find it a waste of time to put the time and effort into making a beer that has already been made for me.

It is you, yourself that is a self-proclaimed prideful jerk that feels compelled to parrot other's creations to prove your importance to your friends. Your words, not mine.

I brew for my own enjoyment, not to prove my worth to others.
Click to expand...

I don't need to prove my worth to people. I do like the challenge of brewing something difficult to see how close I can get. There's a big difference there. Also, I listed several other valid reasons why someone would want to clone a beer, but you're a little too narrow-minded to get it.

My comment was to your "premise and philosophy" remark. There's no premise or philosophy. It is brewing. Lighten up.
 
I think one reason to try your own hand at designing a recipe to clone another beer is to better your knowledge, understanding and skills of brewing.

If I make my own original recipe I will probably like it.

But is it exactly what I tried to make? Who knows?

If I try to make a clone I can directly compare it to what my goal was. Then I can tweak it next time and try to get closer. It's definitely good for learning and it's almost like a test. And afterwards you can drink the results.

Granted, I mainly do original recipes but I think both original recipes and self-designed clones are great.
 
If everyone says their homebrew is better because they can make it exactly the way they like it, then chances are others won't like it. Compare the IPA and the ESB guys above for instance.
 
Like so many others have said, I can make it the way I like it.

I can make the same brew over and over, and I do, because I take very careful notes, plan ahead, mesure everthing, and repeat. I use the same malts, hops and yeast. (Making adjustments for the Alpha acid change from year to year.) With the same water, equipment, and methods. Why shouldn't it be consistent?

The only clone I've ever made is the Anchor Steam clone because there was nothing I would change to make it fit my taste. (and yes I tried, but went back to the clone)
 
I make good beer but can buy great beer. I enjoy the process though so I will continue drinking good beer until it becomes better or great beer.
 
I don't think the "freshness" of home brew is the answer. Many of us like the beer aged/conditioned, so that isn't fresh per se. It's more likely that commercial brewers beyond the small micro's have to package and develop beers that can sit in a bottle for an extended period of time while traveling around in trucks/railcars, etc. and still taste good to the consumer. HB'ers don't have to concern themselves with that and HB'ers for the most part don't ever pasteurize the beer. I find that many commercial beers are clear, clean , crisp and boring and the ones that are tasty are inconsistent from batch to batch. I think that a lot of the bigger breweries also make beer that they think will sell to the largest audience, which I don't have to consider when brewing.

And of course drinking a 25 cent beer that you made vs. the $1.50 commercial bottle influences your perception.
 
samc said:
I don't think the "freshness" of home brew is the answer. Many of us like the beer aged/conditioned, so that isn't fresh per se. It's more likely that commercial brewers beyond the small micro's have to package and develop beers that can sit in a bottle for an extended period of time while traveling around in trucks/railcars, etc. and still taste good to the consumer. HB'ers don't have to concern themselves with that and HB'ers for the most part don't ever pasteurize the beer. I find that many commercial beers are clear, clean , crisp and boring and the ones that are tasty are inconsistent from batch to batch. I think that a lot of the bigger breweries also make beer that they think will sell to the largest audience, which I don't have to consider when brewing.

And of course drinking a 25 cent beer that you made vs. the $1.50 commercial bottle influences your perception.
Click to expand...

I have a local brewery that makes traditional German Lagers. They self distribute to a small customer base so that they can assure that their beer stays refrigerated until the customer buys it. Freshness is their game and they are good at it. It's Red Oak in Whitsett, NC.
 
samc said:
And of course drinking a 25 cent beer that it took you many hours to make vs. the $1.50 commercial bottle influences your perception.
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Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.
 
So far as cloning is concerned, I haven't done much, but coming up with the recipe yourself seems like it would be a good way to improve your palate and get familiar with ingredients. If you can pick apart a beer and recreate it, then you can create your own knowing what each piece of the puzzle adds to the whole.

It's kind of like jazz. You gotta know the rules before you can start improvising
 
Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

I've brewed commercial clones that people could not tell the difference between the homebrew and the commercial. Point being, consistency is in the hands of the brewer. You can brew beer just as good as any craft brewery if you want to.

I love brewing beer, so I dont mind working and spending many hours to brew my beer. Just dont offer me the "It's good but it aint Bud Light" compliment, I will bounce you from my bar! :D
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.
Click to expand...

Real musician learn what makes good music and then make their own hits in their own style that everyone else loves.

The same is true for real brewers.

I don't copy. I improvise and write my own sheet music.:fro:
 
cruckin78 said:
Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)
Click to expand...

I think part of the issue is the definition of "commercial beer". To a lot of people, it means BMC. To me, it's Rochefort. Now, when you can brew a better beer than Rochefort, let me know.
 
SpanishCastleAle said:
Most of the people itt must make some badass beer. My homebrew usually just isn't as good as a good craft brew. And my dog isn't very smart either. My farts stink to high heaven, but I will admit my dog's are even worse.

Musicians learn to play by copying other's music. That's one of the ways they get good at it. Cloning craft beers can be a learning experience.
Click to expand...

Agreed on all points. AND I've been a musician for 45 years.
 
As far as I'm concerned, if I can't brew as good as any craft brewer then I'm doing something wrong or I just don't have the knowledge. Knowledge can always be gained. If I'm not brewing then studing about or planning how to brew.

The day one of my finished recipes taste worse that a beer from a brewery is the day I'll quite brewing!
 
cruckin78 said:
Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)

I've brewed commercial clones that people could not tell the difference between the homebrew and the commercial. Point being, consistency is in the hands of the brewer. You can brew beer just as good as any craft brewery if you want to.

I love brewing beer, so I dont mind working and spending many hours to brew my beer. Just dont offer me the "It's good but it aint Bud Light" compliment, I will bounce you from my bar! :D
Click to expand...

A lot of ass showing in this thread.


_
 
Denny said:
I think part of the issue is the definition of "commercial beer". To a lot of people, it means BMC. To me, it's Rochefort. Now, when you can brew a better beer than Rochefort, let me know.
Click to expand...

Give me another year or so and I'll take that challange! I'm working on perfecting my Trappist style ales right now. In fact as was just reading up on this morning. Rochefort 10 is one of my target brews.
 
cruckin78 said:
Well you guys are doing it wrong then...My homebrew comes out consistantly better then commerical beer IMHO. (to those of you advocating homebrew is inferior to commercial beer, sounding like InBev reps on the Board!)
Click to expand...

Myself and SpanishCastleAle are two of the ones doing it wrong. I think we have something like 10 of the 840 NHC second round entries between us. If we are doing it wrong, we don't want to do it right.
 

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