Thoughts on my A.G. Barley Wine?

Malt & Fermentables
LB OZ MALT
13 0 Pale Malt (Maris Otter)
4 0 American Two-row Toasted
3 0 Wheat Malt 1 8 Munich Malt
1 2 Melanoidin Malt
1 0 Briess Caramel 40L
0 8 Barley, Flaked
0 8 Carared
0 7 Rye, Flaked
0 6 Oats, Flaked
0 4 Burnt Sugar
0 4 maple sap

Hops
USE TIME OZ VARIETY
90 mins 2.0 Columbus
75 mins 2.0 Tettnang
60 mins 1.0 Perle
40 mins 2.0 Willamette
20 mins 1.0 Perle
15 mins 1.0 Willamette
10 mins 1.5 Centennial
5 mins 1.5 Amarillo
(dry hop) 1.5 Amarillo
(dry hop) 1.5 Cascade
(dry hop) 1.5 Centennial

Yeast
Wyeast Scottish Ale (1728)
Wyeast Sake (4134)

Secondy
28 days 6 ounces Oak Chips, apple brandy soaked
28 days 4 ounces Oak Cubes, medium toast
28 days 1.7 ounces Spruce Tips

Expected results:
86.2 IBU 21° SRM 75% Mash Efficiency 13.9% ABV
5 gallon boil. thoughts?

Wow there's...a LOT going on there. I mean...I don't think it will be BAD, but if you ever want to go back and tweak / refine this recipe you're not going to have any idea where to start. Maybe you can start off with a recipe that's a little simpler (I've had great barleywines that were 90% base malt) and then start adding new ingredients to each batch to see what works well for you.

Or screw it and brew it.

Agreed. Just way too much going on. Lactose in a barleywine? No, thank you. Sake yeast? Huh?

Oak bomb... that will take some aging but I bet it will be interesting on the palate

Alright, took away over 1/2 the oak, and removed the Lactose (I was thinking this would give it a creamier mouthfeel and cut on the harshness of the alcohol.).

I'm sticking with the sake yeast as it produces fruity tones, handles high alcohol, and isn't as drying as champagne yeast.

I would definitely say simplify, I would start with dropping the Melanoiden Malt and Burnt sugar. With a 90 minute boil you're going to get that naturally, if you want more, just boil longer. I'd also drop the Carared and Flaked grains, I can't see them bringing much. I'd stick with American varieties of Hops myself, but there's nothing that says that hop schedule won't work. Just seems that it might come out a bit muddled with all that stuff going on.

Alright, thoughts on version 2.0 after I made some revisions based on what you guys said?

malt & fermentables
% LB OZ MALT OR FERMENTABLE PPG °L
64% 17 0 Pale Malt (Maris Otter) 37 3
11% 3 0 Wheat Malt 39 2
8% 2 0 American Two-row Toasted 31 20
6% 1 8 Munich Malt 37 9
4% 1 2 Melanoidin Malt 37 20
4% 1 0 Briess Caramel 40L 34 40
1% 0 6 Oats, Flaked 37 1
1% 0 4 Maple Syrup 30 35
1% 0 4 Burnt Sugar 35 80

Batch size: 5.0 gallons edit

Original Gravity
1.143 / 32.7° Plato
(1.128 to 1.150)

Final Gravity
1.041 / 10.2° Plato
(1.037 to 1.045)

Color
19° SRM / 37° EBC

hops
USE TIME OZ VARIETY FORM AA
boil 60 mins 2.0 Columbus pellet 15.4
boil 40 mins 2.0 Chinook pellet 13.0
boil 15 mins 1.0 Chinook pellet 13.0
boil 10 mins 1.5 Centennial pellet 10.0
boil 5 mins 1.5 Amarillo pellet 4.5
dry hop 7 days 1.5 Amarillo pellet 7.0
dry hop 7 days 1.5 Cascade pellet 5.5
dry hop 7 days 1.5 Centennial pellet 10.0

Boil: 4.0 avg gallons for 60 minutes edit

Bitterness
79.8 IBU / 31 HBU

yeast
Wyeast Scottish Ale (1728)
Wyeast Sake (4134)

Alcohol
13.6% ABV

misc
secondary 28 days 6 ounces Oak Chips, apple brandy soaked
secondary 28 days 4 ounces Oak Cubes, medium toast
secondary 28 days 1.7 ounces Spruce Tips

I like the grain bill a lot better in v2. That secondary still has more oak than a furniture store, but it will mellow given a few years. Might be interesting to get some 1 gallon jugs and ferment 5 different batches with different soaked oak in each, but now I'm just trying to live vicariously through your brewing.

Kitchen Sinky Wine more like. Sorry, I have nothing constructive here.

Bobby_M said:

Kitchen Sinky Wine more like. Sorry, I have nothing constructive here.

Click to expand...

lol, at least you are honest.

Sake yeast for "fruity tones"? You mean like esters? Any yeast produces more esters as the gravity goes up. Plus, what flavor overtones a yeast makes in an all rice bill won't necessarily translate to a beer grainbill. Do you even know if it's capable of fermenting anything more complex than a simple sugar, and if so to what degree? Well, if you decide to do it, let us know how it turns out. It's an experiment, that's for sure.

IMO you still have a grain bill that has too many things in it, even in version 2. When you're talking about 26+ lbs of malt, adding 4oz here or 4oz there of a specialty malt is going to add little to no noticeable difference. If you want any of those specialty malts to come through, they'll need to be at minimum a full pound if not more than.

I also have to agree on the sake yeast discussion here. If you want fruity esters with a high alcohol tolerant strain, you might look into any of the belgian trapist yeasts or a belgian strong ale yeast. Ferment these at a good high temp and you'll get those fruity esters you're referring to.

Just my two cents.

I tend to take a much more "less is more" attitude with my recipe creation but I don't particularly like telling other brewers, in such a artistic hobby, to knock it off. Sam and DFH made a career out of kitchen sink brewing.

I'd focus 90% of this effort on building a yeast army to knock those sugars out.

And I present to you. Version 3!

malt & fermentables
LB OZ MALT
18 0 Pale Malt (Maris Otter)
4 0 American Two-row Toasted
3 0 Wheat Malt 39
1 2 Melanoiden Malt
1 0 Briess Caramel 40L

Batch size: 5.0 gallons

hops
USE TIME OZ VARIETY
boil 60 mins 2.0 Columbus
boil 40 mins 2.0 Chinook
boil 15 mins 1.0 Chinook
boil 5 mins 1.5 Amarillo
dry hop 7 days 1.5 Amarillo

Boil: 4.0 avg gallons for 90 minutes

yeast
Wyeast Scottish Ale (1728)
Wyeast Sake (4134)

Alcohol
13.6% ABV

misc
secondary 28 days 3 ounces Oak Chips, apple brandy soaked

Now we're talkin'. Go forth and brew!