temperature vs water/grist ratio

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bierhunter

bierhunter

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Ok I know mash temperatures of 150 will make the beer drier and 156+ will make it sweeter, and a water/grist ratio of less than 1 1/4 quarts/lb will make it sweeter as well.

If I mash at 1 qt/lb should I then use 150 degree mash to dry it out some or will 153 degrees be ok? I don't mind a slightly sweet taste, but not too much.

My idea is to do a 5 gallon batch on my stove w/paint strainer with all the grain for a 5 gallon batch in 3 gallons, then have the other 2 gallons in the fermenter after the boil. I know, full wort boil and all that, but presently I am stuck with a stovetop and can only do 3 gallon boils. I have been doing 3 gallon batches but its a lot of work for such a small batch size. I also have done 2 2 1/2 gal batches and combined them but that's even more work. Will the taste of my beer suffer that much without a full wort boil? I can't see it being that big of a factor but I know some people here are pretty big on it. I'm not looking for an award winning beer, just something me and my buds can quaff while watching hockey.
 
bierhunter said:
Ok I know mash temperatures of 150 will make the beer drier and 156+ will make it sweeter, and a water/grist ratio of less than 1 1/4 quarts/lb will make it sweeter as well.

If I mash at 1 qt/lb should I then use 150 degree mash to dry it out some or will 153 degrees be ok? I don't mind a slightly sweet taste, but not too much.

My idea is to do a 5 gallon batch on my stove w/paint strainer with all the grain for a 5 gallon batch in 3 gallons, then have the other 2 gallons in the fermenter after the boil. I know, full wort boil and all that, but presently I am stuck with a stovetop and can only do 3 gallon boils. I have been doing 3 gallon batches but its a lot of work for such a small batch size. I also have done 2 2 1/2 gal batches and combined them but that's even more work. Will the taste of my beer suffer that much without a full wort boil? I can't see it being that big of a factor but I know some people here are pretty big on it. I'm not looking for an award winning beer, just something me and my buds can quaff while watching hockey.
Click to expand...

I would probably still go with 1.25-1.5 quarts per pound. 1 quart per pound is a bit too think, in my opinion. The pH would probably be ok, but I'd go with a bit more water per pound to ensure proper conversion. The thickness of the mash has far less to do with residual sugars than mash temperature does. So, I do almost all of my mashes at 1.5 quarts per pound of grain, and then pick my temperature.

Pick your mash temperature based on what you're making. If you're making a cream ale, you'll want a lower temperature (150). If you're making a wee heavy, you'll want a higher temperature (158). For many beers like pale ales and IPAs, I mash at 153. It's a good middle-of-the-road temperature for medium bodied beers.
 
I have no problem with a mash thickness of 1 qt / lb. I do however have a problem with doing a 5g batch and only collecting 3 gallons from the sparge. I think you would get very low efficiency with this process. I brew 5g batches, and sparge until the gravity reduces to about 1.010 or I have collected 7g (whichever comes first).
With light brews (OG < 1.045), I might stop the sparge after collecting about 5.5g, but stopping the sparge at 3g would leave a great deal of sugar behind.
Doing a partial mash would overcome this problem, as you could make up the lost gravity with extract during the boil.

YooperBrew said:
The thickness of the mash has far less to do with residual sugars than mash temperature does.
Click to expand...
This has not been my experience with mashes at 1 qt/lb. Do you have any references to back this up? Now the weather is warming up and I can ferment at reasonable temperatures without heating the house all night, I was going to conduct some experiments to try to determine the effects of mash thickness and mash temperature on attenuation. If there is any documented information on this, it could save me a lot of time and trouble.

-a.
 
ajf said:
This has not been my experience with mashes at 1 qt/lb. Do you have any references to back this up? Now the weather is warming up and I can ferment at reasonable temperatures without heating the house all night, I was going to conduct some experiments to try to determine the effects of mash thickness and mash temperature on attenuation. If there is any documented information on this, it could save me a lot of time and trouble.

-a.
Click to expand...

No, just my own anecdotal evidence. The mash thickness, whether 1.00 quarts per pound or 2.00 quarts per pound doesn't seem to affect the fermentability (and hence the attenuation) in my experience as much as mash temperature does. I used to mash EVERYTHING at 1.25 quarts per pound, and recently boosted that up to 1.5 quarts per pound with my new system. But even going to 2.00 quarts per pound doesn't seem to change the FG in the same recipe. However, mashing at 158 vs 150 (don't ask- I actually missed my temp by that much) made a huge difference. Same recipe, same yeast strain, but missed by 8 degrees due to a faulty thermometer. That beer finished at 1.018 once, and 1.009 with the low temp the next time. Ugh.
 
Sorry for hi-jacking bierhunter.
Thanks Yooper and 944play. I agree that I have not noticed any significant differences in the ranges that you (and Kaiser) tested, but I have noticed a very significant difference when going as thick as 1 qt/lb. This seems to be confirmed by Greg Noonan (New Brewing Lager Beer).
"A thick mash (less than three-tenths of a gallon of water per pound of malt) induces the greatest overall extraction. A much thinner mash increases the proportion of maltose, and thus wort attenuation."
Looks like I'll have to do the experiments.

-a.
 
no problem. It's all good info. I'll give my idea a try and let everyone know how it turns out
 
bierhunter said:
I also have done 2 2 1/2 gal batches and combined them but that's even more work.
Click to expand...

How so? I've done this too a few times for winter brewing. Same 5 gallon batch, but I collected half my 1st runnings in one 3 gallon pot, the other half in another pot.
Then did my sparge and collected that evenly between the two pots, boiled like normal with hops evenly split between the two pots.
combined in primary.

Works perfectly.
 
Malkore,

Using a paint strainer bag or curtain material as per BIAB means I am mashing and boiling in the same pot. Therefore doing 2 batches is not as easy. It's doable, but I am going to try mashing a thick 1 - 1 1/4 qt/lb mix(the grain for a 5 gallon batch but mashed and boiled in 3 gallons) and then adding water after, in the fermenter, to make 5 gallons.
One of the knocks on BIAB brewing is its high water/grist ratio as you basically are adding all the grain in all the water at once and mashing at what will be easily 2 qts/lb or worse. The way I'm going to do it will get that down. As regular all grain brewers you would mash at whatever ratio you wanted, then add sparge water to the amount of batch size plus boil off amount (if I understand the process correctly), then boil 60-90 minutes, cool, and ferment. I assume if your calcs were off and you were short on the batch size you would add the appropriate amount of water after(usually an insignificant amount). Well I would be adding 2 gallons.
 

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