IDEA: ever so slightly sour, quick porter

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BootsyFlanootsy

BootsyFlanootsy

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Here is the idea:

my basic porter recipe, ( a slightly modified take on Edmund Fitzgerald, main diff being English hops over American), scaled down to achieve a 4.2%abv end result.

for the sour portion; reserve a half gallon of first runnings, pitch full vial of WL's Lacto, keep warm (95f-105f), let sour as the rest of the batch ferments clean with s-04, blend it all together in a corny keg, force carb, have ready to drink by thanksgiving.


thoughts?
 
I'm not a big dark sour beer fan, but I think this method would work really well for a wheat/lighter beer. let us know how out works.
 
BootsyFlanootsy said:
my basic porter recipe, ( a slightly modified take on Edmund Fitzgerald, main diff being English hops over American), scaled down to achieve a 4.2%abv end result.

for the sour portion; reserve a half gallon of first runnings, pitch full vial of WL's Lacto, keep warm (95f-105f), let sour as the rest of the batch ferments clean with s-04, blend it all together in a corny keg, force carb, have ready to drink by thanksgiving.
Click to expand...

Sounds OK, but I wouldn't classify it as a "Slightly Modified", I'd say it is completely different.

The part you sour will still have fermentable sugars. Might want to add it before you put it all in the keg, otherwise, if you cool it at that point, the beer might be sweeter than you expect.
 
That's basically what the MadFermentationist did here: http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2010/07/sour-old-ale-quick-oud-bruin.html

The idea is similar. You divide your wort, and sour one part of it. Then, once the right level of sourness is achieved, you mix.

What you're talking about is basically the same thing, and it will probably work and make good beer, but I would pasteurize the lacto portion before adding to the rest of your beer.
 
to kevinT

this isn't about making a "sour dark beer", it's about making a porter that is, well, "somewhat" historically inspired. considering that Guinness and many other porters throughout the 1800's would often contain a certain amount of old "stock ale" blended in, I see this as a nod to that tradition. albeit, an imperfect attempt at doing so. I think a wee bit of tartness in a dark beer is actually quite a desirable effect. consider how well tart cherries go with the flavors of dark chocolate.
 
Not a suggestion as much as an idea:

adding a portion of acid malt to the beer. A LOT of acidulated malt is needed to get an actually sour beer, but if you're going for just a touch of that lactic twang to make things interesting, a small amount of acidulated malt seems like it would do the trick without the extra effort of blending.
 
I have used the white labs lacto, and didn't get a great sourness from it, not enough to notice after 1/10th of the total volume is soured and then poured back into the base beer, especially it being a bigger, more flavorful base beer.

Personally i'd try getting a really nice level of sourness in that 1/2 gallon of reserved wort by setting 1/2 gallon of your wort aside, cooling it from mashout temps down to 110 or so, toss a handful of unmilled grain in there in a grainbag and letting the natural souring bugs that live on the grain create your sour profile. I think with this method you get a much faster souring, a potentially more complex sour because you should have a handful of bugs in there besides a single strain of lacto.
Reserve the wort before the boil so you have unhopped wort as lacto doesn't really like hops. (modify IBU's in base beer to adjust for this).

Keep the "sour mash/wort" in a container you can temp control and keep around 100-110, limit the oxygen contact as much as possible. Lacto will throw off butyric acid in the presence of oxygen that smells like garbage/vomit/dirty diaper, but prevent O2 contact and you should be fine.

Taste the soured portion every day-12 hours and when you are happy with the level of sour, pull the grains out, boil it for 15 minutes or so to kill your bugs, cool and then throw into your base beer that should be bubbling away. The level of sourness is "locked in" any sugars the bugs didn't eat will be eaten by the s04 and you should be good to go.
 
gregkeller said:
I have used the white labs lacto, and didn't get a great sourness from it, not enough to notice after 1/10th of the total volume is soured and then poured back into the base beer, especially it being a bigger, more flavorful base beer.

Personally i'd try getting a really nice level of sourness in that 1/2 gallon of reserved wort by setting 1/2 gallon of your wort aside, cooling it from mashout temps down to 110 or so, toss a handful of unmilled grain in there in a grainbag and letting the natural souring bugs that live on the grain create your sour profile. I think with this method you get a much faster souring, a potentially more complex sour because you should have a handful of bugs in there besides a single strain of lacto.
Reserve the wort before the boil so you have unhopped wort as lacto doesn't really like hops. (modify IBU's in base beer to adjust for this).

Keep the "sour mash/wort" in a container you can temp control and keep around 100-110, limit the oxygen contact as much as possible. Lacto will throw off butyric acid in the presence of oxygen that smells like garbage/vomit/dirty diaper, but prevent O2 contact and you should be fine.

Taste the soured portion every day-12 hours and when you are happy with the level of sour, pull the grains out, boil it for 15 minutes or so to kill your bugs, cool and then throw into your base beer that should be bubbling away. The level of sourness is "locked in" any sugars the bugs didn't eat will be eaten by the s04 and you should be good to go.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a good idea, only I would taste and add accordingly, instead of dumping it all in. You could go way overboard and ruin the batch if its strong enough.
 
gregkeller said:
Lacto will throw off butyric acid in the presence of oxygen that smells like garbage/vomit/dirty diaper, but prevent O2 contact and you should be fine.
Click to expand...

It is not the Lactobacillus that causes this. Using a pure strain of Lacto will not give this result. It is another bacteria on the grain, clostridium I believe, that creates the butyric acid.
 

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