My first total Failure

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LarMoeCur

LarMoeCur

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I did a Blue Moon clone.

5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
5.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20%] (60 min) Hops 10.5 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20%] (25 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat

I mashed at 155*F for 90 minutes and fly sparged for another 30 minutes. I collected 8 gal. for the boil. 60 min boil down to just about 6 gal.
OG after boil 1.032. FG 1.007?????? YES WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?

Here's where I had my failure. I do not think any of the wheat converted. The beer is crystal clear and tastes almost like a corona but super skunked. I've been reading a bunch on wheat beers after this major waste.

Now many of you cook your wheat flakes before the mash? I was under the impression that you didn't have to gelatinize Flaked Wheat. Any ideas on what went wrong? Not enough enzymes maybe? 6 row next time? I have no clue on how this failed.
 
You just ended up getting really poor efficiency and didn't get much out of your grain. I put it together in brewsmith and you got around 55% efficiency. I'm not the person though to ask on how to fix efficiencies. I'm sure though that someone will come by and give you advice on how to fix your problem which should in turn result in a better beer.

As for the skunk taste, there has to be somthing else flawed in the equation. Toss out a little more specific information on the taste and people can probably help you pinpoint the flaw. There is also no reason that a Belgian yeast shouldn't lend some character to the brew. What temp did you ferment at?
 
As jekster said your efficiency doesn't sound like it was very good. That's a lot of grain to get 1.032 into your fermenter. The first thing I would check is your crush.

As for the skunky flavour, as far as I know the only thing that causes that is the beer being light struck (sunlight). Did you keep the fermenter and bottles out of direct sunlight? There may be other causes, I'm sure someone will chime in.
 
If you were fly sparging, you should have sparged for 60 minutes. I'm guessing you left a lot of sugar in the mlt. I use flaked wheat all the time and never cook it before the mash.
 
I think jdoiv has it. You probably had chanelling issues with your fly sparging.

Did you do gravity reading while fly sparging? This would tell you if you were sparging correctly.
 
boo boo said:
I think jdoiv has it. You probably had chanelling issues with your fly sparging.

Did you do gravity reading while fly sparging? This would tell you if you were sparging correctly.
Click to expand...
Ditto, I completely missed the fly sparging part of the OP.
 
Nope no gravity reading just set sparge arm to a slow trickle.

I'm looking for 1.010 close to the end of the sparge correct?
 
LarMoeCur said:
Nope no gravity reading just set sparge arm to a slow trickle.

I'm looking for 1.010 close to the end of the sparge correct?
Click to expand...

Yes if the PH is correct. The thing is that randon gravity checks show if you aren't getting the sugar from your sparge. You could have chanelling in the mash and your sparge water is passing through without contacting the sugar in the grainbed. I don't fly sparge but I understand that sometimes raking the mash helps reduce the chanelling issue. If your grainbed is set then you can rake to within a few inches of the manifold without any loose grain getting through.
 
I'm going to do it again this weekend. I'm going to try a FLY/Batch combo sparge. I'm going to drain off half of the first running then add about one half of the sparge water and mix the heck out of it. Let it sit maybe 30 minutes and then fly sparge the rest over another 30 minutes.

My eff. has be in the dumps sense I've added a sparge arm and started fly sparging. Maybe on second thought I'll just batch sparge over an hour. I'm going to kick it around. We will see how I feel next weekend.
 
I wouldn't take so long with the sparge if you're going to do a batch sparge. If you let it sit for a long time the sugar could absorb back into the grains. Try doing the batch sparge in 2 stages. Add half right after the mash, stir it really well, vorlauf and run it off. Then add the second half, stir it really well, vorlauf and run off again. This is what I do and I get mid to high 80's when I batch sparge.
 
Fly sparging that late after doing batch sparging will haul a lot of tannins from the grain IMO.
Why bother with fly sparging this early in your brewing journey? Batch sparging rules!
 
LarMoeCur said:
I'm going to do it again this weekend. I'm going to try a FLY/Batch combo sparge. I'm going to drain off half of the first running then add about one half of the sparge water and mix the heck out of it. Let it sit maybe 30 minutes and then fly sparge the rest over another 30 minutes.

My eff. has be in the dumps sense I've added a sparge arm and started fly sparging. Maybe on second thought I'll just batch sparge over an hour. I'm going to kick it around. We will see how I feel next weekend.
Click to expand...

Why? and What?

Either you fly or you batch. Don't try and do a little of both. Half-assed at either isn't going to solve your problem. To quote Dean Wormer, "Fat, dumb and stupid is no way to go through life son." With batch sparging, the quick drain and suction it creates is what pulls the sugars out. With fly, its the slow rinsing and constant hot water is what pulls the sugar out. Mixing the two just doesn't sound like it's going to do a very good job of either.

I'm sorry to sound like a hard ass, but when you have the basics down then you can try experimenting. But don't ask for advice and then throw it out the window when your not getting the results your looking for. Pick one or the other, dial in your process then come back and let us know how your doing.
:)
 
If you can, use at least .5# rice hulls in your mash. This is primarily to prevent a stuck sparge with that much flake, but it may also help prevent channeling.
I've made that exact recipe twice and it turned out great both times.
 
I'd say it could be a combination of things. First UK 2-row doesn't have a lot of extra diastatic power, it may not have been able to handle converting 5 pounds of flaked wheat. Second you did rush the sparge, like others said a good fly sparge should take at least 1 hour. The skunked flavor could be from unconverted wheat but thats just a wild guess.

LarMoeCur said:
I did a Blue Moon clone.

5.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
5.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 50.0 %
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20%] (60 min) Hops 10.5 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [6.20%] (25 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.00 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat

I mashed at 155*F for 90 minutes and fly sparged for another 30 minutes. I collected 8 gal. for the boil. 60 min boil down to just about 6 gal.
OG after boil 1.032. FG 1.007?????? YES WHAT THE HECK IS THAT?

Here's where I had my failure. I do not think any of the wheat converted. The beer is crystal clear and tastes almost like a corona but super skunked. I've been reading a bunch on wheat beers after this major waste.

Now many of you cook your wheat flakes before the mash? I was under the impression that you didn't have to gelatinize Flaked Wheat. Any ideas on what went wrong? Not enough enzymes maybe? 6 row next time? I have no clue on how this failed.
Click to expand...
 
I'd agree that you sparge was much too fast, but there's probably more to it than just that.

5 lbs English 2 row doesn't have enough enzymes to convert 5 lbs flaked wheat. It could probably only handle 1 - 2 lbs.

What are you using at the bottom of your MLT? A false bottom is good for both batch and fly sparges. A braid works for batch sparging, but not for fly.

-a.
 
I had a feeling it was one of the two or both. My eff. has been down around 60% after adding a sparge arm. My sparges have been way under 60 min. I'll bump that up. I may just go back to batch sparging. My eff. was better.

I'm going to modify the recipe a little. I'm going to add some more malt. I had a feeling the enzymes where part of the problem. I'm going to put something together tonight. I'll post it to see what you think.

Thanks for all the input. I've got a lot to kick around.
 
I think this will work for me. I bumped it up a little to account for my poor eff.
What do you all think?

7.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 54.9 %
3.25 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 25.5 %
1.25 lb Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 9.8 %
1.25 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 9.8 %
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 9.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (25 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.25 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat
 

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