Honey at bottom of Carboy!

I have been poking around on the internet, and I have yet to find a good answer to my problem. I used the no-heat method for my 5-gallon batch of raspberry melomel. I simply dumped in 15 lbs of clove honey, 48oz of frozen raspberries, and topped it off with water. The raspberries, although mostly thawed, brought the temps of my must down considerably, and the honey simple would not dissolve, even when I shook the ever livin' piss out of the carboy for 10 minutes. I have a good 3 inches of honey sitting at the bottom of the carboy.

The question is, will this honey be fermented out OK, or did I just blow my first batch of mead?

I understand that I can stir it up with some sort of drill attachment, but I have seen several youtube videos that state that this is not necessary, and you can get away with just dumping the honey in and not dissolving at all. This no-heat method results in a more aromatic mead supposedly as the heat method "boils" away some of the compounds in honey that lend to its aromatics.

The honey at the bottom of the carboy will definitely ferment, no worries, the only issue being you won't have an OG to work with. Check out "Bottom Dwelling Continuous Diffusion Yeast Feeding", or "BDC DYF".

Awesome, thanks for the update. I pulled my carboy out of the aquarium fermenter I rigged up and it looks like 90% of the honey has been "eaten up" after only 72 hours.

I guess now I have a second question though...is there an advantage to doing BDC DYF...do the yeast prefer to be fed as opposed to blunt force trauma introduction into a 1.10 + OG environment?

Aquarium fermenter? That doesn't sound sanitary.

mcaple1 said:

I guess now I have a second question though...is there an advantage to doing BDC DYF...do the yeast prefer to be fed as opposed to blunt force trauma introduction into a 1.10 + OG environment?

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Popular wisdom is that the yeast are stressed by high osmotic pressure. The higher the specific gravity, the higher the osmotic pressure (on the yeast cell walls).

So, with the honey sitting on the bottom (and not dissolved in the water), the specific gravity is low, and the yeast are happier. I guess it's similar to just adding a bit of honey to your carboy every few hours: the yeast get to consume the sugars as they are added, and the specific gravity never goes up (much).

Meh, I'm just riffing. Not sure if what I'm saying is true.

Since yeast will divide to the proper numbers to attack their "environment", isn't is detrimental to not introduce the yeasties to the true gravity of the must/wort instead of making them think that the environment they are in is much less "sugary" (I know I am using very scientific terminology here). In theory then, wouldn't the fermenting process take much longer than if the honey was in suspension all along, and the yeast adapted to it right away>?

mcaple1 said:

Since yeast will divide to the proper numbers to attack their "environment", isn't is detrimental to not introduce the yeasties to the true gravity of the must/wort instead of making them think that the environment they are in is much less "sugary" (I know I am using very scientific terminology here). In theory then, wouldn't the fermenting process take much longer than if the honey was in suspension all along, and the yeast adapted to it right away>?

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I see what you are saying. I don't know. Perhaps it would take longer, but result in a more complete fermentation due to more healthy yeast. Maybe it doesn't make any difference. I was just regurgitating what I've heard on the beer side of fermentation.

Yeah, while I am no expert, I definitely am a bit more versed in beer brewing than mead. I figured that since my wife was into wine and is absolutely repulsed by beer, this would be a good start for her.

It's weird to think that the fermentation would be "healthier" in the mead using this technique if you look at it from a beer point of view. In beer, you want to pitch the correct amount of yeast, so that the lag phase is shorter and so that less esters and other off flavors are not introduced into your final beer. In mead, it seems to be the opposite, that the yeast would rather work 2 hours of their 9-5 shift and then take the rest of the day off to just sip some pina coladas. But in the end, they seem to respond better to this "siesta" environment.

I'm by no means an expert - I've never done a bottom ferment, just read about it - but I don't understand why you think a beer ferment is that much different from a mead ferment. In mead, as in beer, you're trying to reduce the stress on the yeast so they produce as few off-flavors as possible. Pitching a really small yeast population is more work for the yeast in both cases.

Bottom fermenting is used primarily in situations where you want to have a really high SG and thus high ABV. I've never heard of people using the method as a standard approach for normal fermentation purposes; not saying people don't, but it's not common practice. Having the honey at the bottom is kind of like having a built in starter, so the yeast slowly acclimate to the stressful conditions at their own rate, so it's useful when you want to have the yeast ferment sugar equivalent to an OG of 1.150 or greater.

I don't know how the speed of ferment would compare; it may be longer, but think of it like fermenting at a lower temp: at high temps, the ferment will zip along, but you're gonna get a lot of off-flavors.

the drill mounted wine degasser is good for mixing the must and great for degassing during primary so you get a good, vigorous fermentation.

mccann51 said:

Bottom fermenting is used primarily in situations where you want to have a really high SG and thus high ABV. I've never heard of people using the method as a standard approach for normal fermentation purposes; not saying people don't, but it's not common practice.

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DaleP over on GotMead does it routinely for standard strength meads and has produced several award winners using this method. I have used it with standard strength meads and it does work just fine, though you have some issues (like not knowing your starting gravity, and not necessarily being able to end dry)

It does seem to allow high gravity fermentation with results that are quite good. I think minimizing the yeast stress can be a very helpful thing. I can't say that the results are better than a typical batch with the honey mixed in except in extreme cases (where you would have to step-feed as an alternative). Still it is a viable technique that produces good mead, and saves time and energy.

I look at is as another step toward perfecting lazy-man mead making.
First there was no starters.
Then there was no-boil.
Then there was no heat, and no sulfites.
Now, no mixing required.

The next step will be to get the bees to put the honey in the carboy for you.

Medsen

I use a wine degasser and love it. If you don't have one, you might want to consider mixing the honey and water in a sanitized bucket first. Then, just use a funnel to get it in the carboy. It's a lot easier than shaking "the ever livin' piss out of the carboy for 10 minutes".