Northern Brewer Accumash

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BreezyBrew

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I wish I had thought of this product first! It's a mix of brewing salts that you add to RO water. You can choose the type of beer you're brewing, and it will have minerals specific to that beer style.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/brewing-ingredients/salts-finings/accumash.html

It is a bit on the expensive side, and I'm not sure how it could contain a liquid acid, unless that was in a seperate package inside. Has anyone seen or heard of this before?
 
Seems to target those new to all grain brewing and fits a business model of "able to be included in a kit" as an option.

From the instructions:

Ingredients: a blend of food-grade buffering phosphates (Mono and Disodium phosphate), Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate, Calcium Chloride, Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Bicarbonate, Calcium Carbonate

Not sure their model of SRM and OG, combined with those salts, will accurately target an acceptable pH without further adjustment. Perhaps if one likes salt and lacks a pH meter.

Personally, I enjoy experimenting with water. With a couple minutes worth of "work" (if you can call it that) and a decent spreadsheet, I can make a water profile and target a specific mash pH. Another couple minutes or less and I can weigh out my salts with a gram scale.
 
The fact that the product contains, according to the posted ingredients list, phosphate salts and calcium carbonate, immediately disqualifies it from serious consideration.

There obviously is no liquid acid in it but monobasic sodium (or potassium) phosphate is acidic relative to any pH > 4.65
 
I know that water chemistry can scare some people off but with a little time on the forum and a decent spreadsheet or calculator you can control your brewing salts and KNOW what you are adding and how it affects the end product. Pass for me.
 
The fact that the product contains, according to the posted ingredients list, phosphate salts and calcium carbonate, immediately disqualifies it from serious consideration.

Thanks AJ. Just out of curiosity, what is it about phosphate salts and calcium carbonate that aren't suitable for beer?

I find it interesting that there aren't different minerals for mashing and sparging.

I also use Bru'in water and find it very easy. It is an excellent tool. It's made my beer go from good to great. I wouldn't brew without it now.
 
Thanks AJ. Just out of curiosity, what is it about phosphate salts and calcium carbonate that aren't suitable for beer?
Phosphoric acid is great for acidifying mash as phosphate ion is quite flavor neutral (compared to, say, acetic or lactic). The salts of phosphoric acid are great for making buffers as long as the pH to be buffered is within ± 1 pH of one of the pK's of phosphoric acid which are 2.12, 7.21 and 12.44 thus you can make a good phosphate buffer for pH 7.00 and the one of the buffers we use to calibrate our pH meters is a phosphate buffer. Buffering, BTW, refers to the ability to resist change in pH. The reason for the ±1 rule is that a buffer of mixed salts resists pH change best close to the pK. As you try to make buffers away from the pK the ability to resist change dimininishes. Half way between the pKs of an acid the buffering capacity is least and the mix isn't a good buffer at all. pH 5.2, is 3.1 pH units from 2.12 and 2.0 pH units from 7.2. Thus a phosphate buffer isn't a very good buffer at that pH and explains why the product called '5.2' which claims to 'Lock in' mash pH at that level cannot in fact do so. If phosphate buffering doesn't work in '5.2' it isn't going to work with this product either. Then there is the question of what pH the buffer is supposed to buffer to. With '5.2' the claim is of buffering to pH 5.2 but this product does not say what pH it is supposed to buffer to and that will vary according to what the brewer is trying to do. Finally, if one is willing to tolerate phosphate ions as the cost of setting mash pH properly he is much better off using the acid which gives him one biphosphate ion for every proton than the monobasic salt which gives him 43 sodium ions and 43 biphosphate ions for each proton.

Now onto the calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate is, or was, used in brewing as a supposed source of alkalinity. The need for alkalinity was based on the assumption that dark beers were made with alkaline water and that dark beer's colored malts contained so much acid that unless the water were very alkaline the pH of the mash would fall too low. What was overlooked was the fact that in most cases of alkaline water simply heating it in the HLT dropped a lot of the alkalinity and that the base malts themselves are fairly alkaline and absorb much of the acid from the dark malts. It was surmised that any dark beer needed a big addition of alkali and the alkali available at most LHBS's was chalk because it has been put up for years for use in reducing the acidity of wine. There were popular books, websites and spreadsheet/calculators around that would have you enter a nomograph or the calculator with the beer color and calculate the amount of chalk to add which often ran to tbsp in 5 gallon batches.

It becomes even more intersting. Many of the spreadsheet authors did not understand how to calculate the alkalinity of carbonate correctly and so concluded that mash pH would not be overly increased by addition of all this carbonate. The interesting thing is that mash pH was not, in fact, increased that much by calcium carbonate addition because calcium carbonate is very insoluble in water. When we began making noise about this a few years back we noted that it is true that natural water does contain calcium bicarbonate because the chalk is, in nature, dissolved by carbonic acid the response was that the brewer should then put the chalk into the grains as it was the acid in the grains that we need the chalk to neutralize and that that acid would dissolve it. Note that the instructions for this product say that it should be added to the grains. It doesn't really matter as if it is added to the water and the chalk kept in suspension it is equally well, or probably better, distributed through the grain mass. Chalk mixed into a grist containing acid releasing grains dissolves and reacts slowly. That is, in part, because many of the protons released are absorbed by the alkalinity of the base malts. Thus the chalk does not, at first, deliver its alkalinity (proton absorbing potential) and the brewer thus did not see the effects of the carbonate in his mash pH check done shortly after dough in. But the chalk is still there and keeps on reacting throughout the mash, sparge, kettle and fermenter depending on how much of it makes it through the grain filter bed, precipitates in the kettle etc. The result was, apparently, some pretty bad beers but the practice of adding lots of chalk still persists to this day and this product is evidence that the notion that it is still needed is still alive.

In summary, chalk is a bad idea because alkalinity is usually not needed in the first place and because, when it is, chalk is a bad source of it. The fact that alkalinity is usually not needed means that bicarbonate is not needed either in most cases and thus the fact that this product contains bicarbonate is damning. Further to this, the phosphate buffers are apparently supposed to pull pH down to proper mash range. Bicarbonate and carbonate are supposed to pull mash pH up. Lot of snake oil here.

I also use Bru'in water and find it very easy. It is an excellent tool. It's made my beer go from good to great. I wouldn't brew without it now.

I too use a spreadsheet but more to answer questions here and elsewhere (e.g. sodium and phosphate ion numbers above) than to plan brews. After enough use of one long enough you will, we expect, develop insights that will let you know what to do intuitively in a given situation but if you want to know the pH of a blend of two different waters with different mineral content and pH you'll want a spreadsheet to do it.
 
I really appreciate the explanation AJ. It has helped me to understand water chem better.

I see what you mean about the spreadsheet. I have been using it about a year and a half, so I am familiar with how the malt will react. I keep it up for a log of what exactly went into the beer's water chemistry. This is valuable to me when I brew something similar.

Keep up the good work! I always benefit from your comments.
 
For the life of me I've not been able to figure out water chemistry. Partly due to the fact that I can't find an accurate water report for my water. I've also tried to research "building" a water profile with distilled water but can't really find an easy answer. Partly because most of the answers go right over my head.

I'm doing my first all-grain batch this coming weekend and I ordered this Accumash packet to give it a try. I won't have much to compare it to but I'll let you know how it goes.

I'd like to hear from anybody else who's used it though. Anybody?
 
For the life of me I've not been able to figure out water chemistry. Partly due to the fact that I can't find an accurate water report for my water. I've also tried to research "building" a water profile with distilled water but can't really find an easy answer. Partly because most of the answers go right over my head.

I'm doing my first all-grain batch this coming weekend and I ordered this Accumash packet to give it a try. I won't have much to compare it to but I'll let you know how it goes.

I'd like to hear from anybody else who's used it though. Anybody?

There is no easy way out. This product will not help to improve your beer. It is not made by NB it is made by a lab out of Iowa and marketed by NB.

1.) Send a sample of your water to Ward Labs to get tested and/or use RO/DI Water.
2.) Learn to use Bru N Water.
3.) Get a decent pH meter.
4.) Learn to adjust your mash dynamically.

All else is folly. It takes work and you'll have to use the gray matter but in the end you'll be better off for it.
 
For the life of me I've not been able to figure out water chemistry. Partly due to the fact that I can't find an accurate water report for my water. I've also tried to research "building" a water profile with distilled water but can't really find an easy answer. Partly because most of the answers go right over my head.
There is an easy answer. It is at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/. You should be able to follow the original post if not the 1001 replies.

I'm doing my first all-grain batch this coming weekend and I ordered this Accumash packet to give it a try. I won't have much to compare it to but I'll let you know how it goes.

The fact that you have no basis for comparison and thus won't know whether it detrimented your beer or improved it is what allows the people that take your money to get away with this. Send me $10 and tell me when you are brewing and what sign of the zodiac you were born under and I will say a prayer to Ninkasi that I absolutely guarantee will improve your beer. If the people at NB are so ignorant of brewing science as to be unable to tell that this product will not do what it is advertised to do they should not be in the brewing supply business. If they do know then they are basically dishonest. In either case they should be ashamed.
 
Seems expensive at $4.99 to treat a 5 gallon batch with this to be honest..The water additions seperately are cheaper to buy and treat your water using one of the well known water treatment spreadsheets...This gets even more expensive in larger batches(10gal) as I assume this is enough to just treat a 5 gallon AG batch from what I see.
 
My wife and I are home brewers that developed ACCUmash in late 2013. We believe in making home brewing easier for brewers at any experience level. For our patented product, we use calculations from the science used in the spreadsheets that many brewers mentioned above. Through iterative experimentation, we have tested and adjusted our formulations. We make it easier to brew without having to open/interpret a spreadsheet or know and understand the variability of your tap water. We understand that calcium carbonate is not very soluble and do not include more than what we believe is soluble at mash temperature and pH. Everyone of the ACCUmash recipes have been tested with multiple batch experiments. Leaning too heavily on a calcium carbonate addition would result in a failed recipe (which we had many of before establishing our final recipes).

We invite you to try the product and contact us with any feedback you may have as we are always looking to improve. We have gained a significant amount of information from brewers on forums just like this. We are currently building our website, accu-mash.com, and will be addressing many of the questions and concerns on this forum. We hope to have the website live within the month. Thank you for your interest in ACCUmash.
 
My wife and I are home brewers that developed ACCUmash in late 2013. We believe in making home brewing easier for brewers at any experience level. For our patented product, we use calculations from the science used in the spreadsheets that many brewers mentioned above. Through iterative experimentation, we have tested and adjusted our formulations. We make it easier to brew without having to open/interpret a spreadsheet or know and understand the variability of your tap water. We understand that calcium carbonate is not very soluble and do not include more than what we believe is soluble at mash temperature and pH. Everyone of the ACCUmash recipes have been tested with multiple batch experiments. Leaning too heavily on a calcium carbonate addition would result in a failed recipe (which we had many of before establishing our final recipes).

There are two considerations here. The first is that chalk is alkaline and therefore will raise mash pH, not lower it. You can dissolve as much chalk as you want at mash pH if you add the acid it takes to do the job i.e. if you can maintain mash pH in the presence of chalk. It (the chalk) simply converts to the calcium salt of what ever acid you use, CO2 gas and water. Chalk's solubility at mash pH is not at issue. The problem with a mash is that it doesn't have the acid to get the mash to desirable pH. The brewer must add acid for most beers. If the brewer doesn't then he is relying on the specialty malts (sauermalts, roast malts, crystal malts) to supply it. In a typical pale beer mash one might have 90% base malt and 10% colored malt of say 20L. A mash of 9 lbs Crisp Maris Otter and 1 lbs Briess 40L crystal would be expected to have a mash pH of 5.6. Most would agree that that is on the margin and that 5.5 or even 5.4 would be preferable. For the former one would have to add 22 mEq of acid. For the latter 44. Thus the brewer should add nothing if he is willing to accept a mash pH of 5.6 and as much as 44 mEq of acid if he wants pH as low as 5.4.

If one adds alkali to that the mash pH will go up. It will be higher than 5.6. Suppose, for example, we added 1 gram of chalk to this mash and that the chalk dissolves i.e. that it delivers its potential alkalinity. It doesn't, as we shall see and that is ostensibly a good thing but for now lets assume that it does. It would absorb protons from the mash converting some carbonate ions to bicarbonate and some of those to carbonic acid. The pH would rise by about 0.1 point to about 5.7. As it is generally accepted that mash pH of 5.6 is marginally high one would scarcely want to go to a higher mash pH and, therefore, adding chalk to a mash such as this one just doesn't seem like a very good idea.

The second thing that is being ignored is that calcium carbonate dissolves very, very slowly at mash pH and above. If you take a beaker full of DI water, add enough hydrochloric acid to set the pH to 3 or 4, insert a pH electrode and a stir bar, add a pinch of chalk and record pH you will, initially, of course, record pH 3 or 4 and, as it takes very little HCl to set water pH to 3, expect the CaCO3 to quickly neutralize it with a sharp rise in pH. The rise in pH does occur but it takes days, not minutes. I was in disbelief the first time I saw this. I had a beaker full of a milky suspension of CaCO3 with a pH of 3 which was creeping but not galloping upwards. I thought the electrode had gone south. A moments reflection reminded me that I had seen similar behaviour in recordings of mash pH to which chalk had been added.

There are three reactions that must take place for protons to be absorbed:
1) CaCO3 + H2O ---> Ca++(aq) + CO3--(aq)
2) H+ + CO3--(aq) ---> HCO3-(aq)
3) H+ + HCO3-(aq) --->H2CO3

Since reactions 2 and 3 take place instantly in the titration we do when measuring the alkalinity of a water sample we conclude that it is reaction 1 which is holding things up. Even the tiny particles of the flour like 'precipitated chalk' we buy take a long time to go into solution (the smaller the particle the larger the ratio of surface area to mass so that you would expect smaller particles to dissolve faster than larger ones). If you continue your experiment incrementally adding acid to the suspension sufficient to bring the pH down to 2 or 3, waiting for it to react to raise the pH back up to 6 or 7, adding more acid... eventually the chalk will be consumed and the liquid will turn clear. That doesn't mean all the chalk is dissolved. It just means the remaining crystals are too small for you to see. pH will continue to climb overnight (I haven't gone much longer than that in these experiments) proving that there is still CaCO3(s) in suspension.

The conclusion to be drawn from all this is that you have decided to add chalk to mash in order to withdraw protons (raise mash pH) although in the case of pale beers (and even some stouts) this is the exactly the wrong thing to do (most pale beers require acid) but only a small fraction of the added chalk actually does so. Thus you ostensibly get away with making this mistake. But that un-reacted chalk is still there or at least some of it is. We presume that the larger flour particles get trapped in the sparge but we are fairly certain that microcrystals make it through. These get to do their pH raising damage later on in the sparge, kettle and even into the fermenter. Another conclusion is that in a grist where alkali is desired (because the roast/high kilned malts deliver more protons at the desired pH than the base malt can absorb) chalk is a poor choice because it doesn't absorb all the protons the stoichimetry says it should until the beer is long out of the mash tun. In such cases one uses bicarbonate or calcium hydroxide.

These phenomena are well known in the brewing community if not fully understood. If you try to sell a product that relies on a methodology that is no longer accepted you will only be likely to sell it to brewers who are not up on the current understanding.


We invite you to try the product and contact us with any feedback you may have as we are always looking to improve. We have gained a significant amount of information from brewers on forums just like this.

I suppose the comment that goes here is that many brewers have tried using chalk and phosphate buffers in their brewing and have found them wanting. I definitely am behind the KISS principle for beginning brewers and direct most of them to the Primer in this forum: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460
which says, in essence, add a gram per gallon divided between calcium chloride and calcium sulfate depending on how much sulfate you like and use sauermalz or not depending on whether the beer is pale or dark. There are a few more style related tweaks there as well. Lots of brewers have used the approach with success and so there is a good chance that if you sell prepackaged mixtures of calcium chloride and sulfate (usually sold as 'Burton Salts') without chalk or phosphates they would be able to use them successfully as well. But it needs to be understood that this will not result in the best beer but only a decent beer and, if one is lucky, good beer. The best beer is realized by careful measurement of mash pH (the sine qua non for the best beers) and experimentation with stylistic ion levels. This, of course, in addition to scrupulous attention to all the other detals. "Accurate" as implied by the product name, does not really fit the KISS approach.


We are currently building our website, accu-mash.com, and will be addressing many of the questions and concerns on this forum. We hope to have the website live within the month. Thank you for your interest in ACCUmash.
We do try to keep an open mind.
 
We do try to keep an open mind.

In keeping with this and to be fair we must allow that when this gentleman says he is using 'phosphate' we assume (as I think most would absent any qualifiers) that he means orthophosphate. It is, however, possible that he is using a polyphosphate, most probably disodium pyrophosphate (food additive E450, sodium acid phosphate) or possibly calcium disodium diphosphate (also designated E450 but much less soluble). These are GRAS and widely found in products like baking soda, cake and pancake mixes etc. As the name sodium acid phosphate suggests, it is more acidic than the similar orthophosphate salt. I've posted buffering curves for ortho and pyro phosphate at https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=518600&page=3 where I also indicate that it would indeed be possible to get to nominal pH (5.5) in a typical ale mash using sodium acid phosphate introducing about 80 mg/L sodium. That's still quite a bit but not intolerable. A nice feature of SAP is that at the boil it would hydrolyze to orthophosphate thus potentially precipitating more calcium in the kettle and further lowering pH there.

Now I have no evidence that this is what he is doing but we must nevertheless allow the possibility. He can, of course, sweep away my phosphate criticism simply by revealing what he is actually doing or, if he wants to protect 'trade secrets' hinting that my thinking here is leaning in the right direction without actually stating what the salt(s) is. That's his decision to make. The calcium carbonate/baking soda inclusion is another thing.
 
Thanks again to everyone for the feedback and interest. What we can share is that we pulled our last 14 mash experiments where phosphates were added post the rest of the additions (calcium chloride, calcium sulfate, magnesium sulfate, and some recipes for darker beers also have sodium bicarbonate and/or calcium hydroxide). We allowed the pH to stabilize (10-15 minutes) after the before mentioned addition, and then added the phosphate as a separate addition. On average, we saw a .08 pH reduction. If we were to share the raw data, you would see a few outliers. When the outliers are removed, the pH reduction averages .066 reduction. Regardless of the specific material used in ACCUmash, I hope this assures you that we are making a good choice using the phosphates we are using and we are using it for a good reason.

As far as the use of Sodium Bicarbonate, we only use sodium bicarbonate in formulations where we anticipate the need to compensate for the use of dark grains.

We want to be the water chemistry solution that beginner, intermediate, and busy brewers can rely on. When launching ACCUmash, we gave out hundreds of samples, we have requested feedback with every sample we have given out, and have received great feedback so far. We have even had some best in show winners, runner ups, and finalists. We will continue to listen to brewers and experts alike to improve the product as needed. For instance, the last several shipments of ACCUmash were reformulated to no longer contain Calcium Carbonate. Please see our FAQs at ACCU-mash.com for further questions or send us an email at [email protected].

Thanks,
Gary and Tiffany Williams
 
Hello, new to the forum, but just thought I'd post my thoughts on this product from my perspective: I've been home brewing for about three years now, and have enjoyed learning the nuancies of the hobby for the most part. Both of the places that I used to live had great water for brewing and never needed any additions made chemistry wise. The newest place that I moved to recently has pretty awful hard water, so I started diving into the water chemistry calculations, switching to RO water for my all grain brewing.

I don't consider myself a dunce intellectually, however I have been attempting to keep my hobby as KISS as possible to ensure that I continue to enjoy the hobby and not get frustrated. I have to admit that the more that I attempt to research the water chemistry side of things, the more frustrated I keep getting. The fact that my eyes are glazing over as I read everyone's posts on this string reassure me that I keep getting over my head, so I have been actively searching for a product such as what Gary and his wife have been working on. I appreciate the effort and plan on trying the product out, as I want my hobby to stay fun and light hearted.

I'm going to do my best to post my thoughts after I've tried it out, and remain open minded to people's efforts to make this easier rather than look down my nose at folks that aren't interested in dabbling with spreadsheets each brew :)
 
ACUmash would be a hit for frequent brewers in a bulk bag or bottle... label it x amount per gallon for each beer style... Since I only brew a few it would simplify my brew day. Stock 3 types and call it good! I am not making competition beers, I am making drinking beers! Ales are very hard to come by out where I live and what is available isn't the best!
 
While this is a 3 year old thread, I'm wondering if ACCUmash, as a company, is defunct? The website is gone and the trademark, for the name, appears to have been abandoned. Last post on Twitter and Facebook was March 1. Just wondering...
 
While this is a 3 year old thread, I'm wondering if ACCUmash, as a company, is defunct? The website is gone and the trademark, for the name, appears to have been abandoned. Last post on Twitter and Facebook was March 1. Just wondering...
I looked at this months ago for similar reasons to yours. I saw it at an online brew shop (can’t remember which one) but it appeared they were selling out stock as they did not have all the brew styles on hand. A look at Amazon showed ACCUmash for some style but lacked others. I guess I don’t trust it is going to stick around. However, I recently saw a similar product for classic styles and “new styles” : https://www.watersbrewer.com/collections/classic-styles — I will try it for the next batch.
 
Yes, ACCUmash is still available for sale. One of the LHBS carries a cardboard display rack -- in what appears to be new packaging from what I bought earlier in the year. Love2brew appears to be selling the older packaged packets. What I saw at our LHBS now has "Balanced #" labels pasted on the front. They must have sold out to get the new packaging--or got labels from ACCUmash to stick on the outside!
 
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