wort won't stop bubbling

I would expect that it would finish high. You used 3 lbs of malts that aren't even fermentable. At 85% eff that equates to 18 points in a 5 gallon batch. How much malt extract did you use?

THe starter was a smack pack of Belgium strong (1388?) In a 2 cups of dme in a quart bottle for 2 days w/ an airlock at 75 I think. I did follow the starter directions that have just don't have them in front of me.

I used 9 lbs of dme after the mashing (correct term?) the grains I had then did the usual extract boil with hops .

DME in 2 cups of water, you mean? I hope it wasn't 2 cups of DME into a qt bottle.

Looking backseat my notes i used 1/2 cup to 3/4 cup in about a quart of h2o probably a little less.

How's the gravity? You didn't add enzyme, right? Keep that in your pocket as a last resort.

kenstogie said:

Looking backseat my notes i used 1/2 cup to 3/4 cup in about a quart of h2o probably a little less.

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I have not used any enzyme and my auto correct comes up with some funny stuff, backseat from back at.

I haven't checked the gravity, how often can you safely do that without fear of introducing "other stuff"??

Is it still bubbling?

seabass07 said:

Is it still bubbling?

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Sure was this morning.

kenstogie said:

Sure was this morning.

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If you can, wait a few more days, but I'd want to know if it's dropping!

I can wait, I am a, lazy errr I mean patient man.

Like I said before...just leave it until it stops bubbling. It's taking forever because you underpitched by a lot. It might take a long time and it might stall, but if it's still bubbling without the temp rising or beer being disturbed, there's activity.

Roger that. Thats my plan.

seabass07 said:

My god...it's a 5L starter...not a 5G starter. That's a reasonable size. You could probably get away with a 3-4L starter with no major off flavors.

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I can conceive of no situation where you'd need more than a 1l starter for a 5g batch. Even barley wine.

luhrks said:

I can conceive of no situation where you'd need more than a 1l starter for a 5g batch. Even barley wine.

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321 Billion yeast cells needed for a 1.095OG 5G batch. Most vials have MAYBE 100b cells in them by the time you get them. A single vial would require at least a 4L starter.

luhrks said:

I can conceive of no situation where you'd need more than a 1l starter for a 5g batch. Even barley wine.

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Define need...Depending on the strain, a 1L starter will likely finish up the job with a barleywine, but the off flavors will be very noticeable. Try it both ways and you'll see what you get with underpitching. Just because it will make beer doesn't make it good practice.

tre9er said:

321 Billion yeast cells needed for a 1.095OG 5G batch. Most vials have MAYBE 100b cells in them by the time you get them. A single vial would require at least a 4L starter.

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You want to add a 1g starter to a 5g batch? That's some serious overkill. Provided you have proper aeration, nutrients, and temp control you can use 1/2 to 1/3 of the volume of starter without stressing the yeast. It'll just take a little longer is all, and the risk of off flavors will be about the same as worrying about HSA.

In this particular situation using Wyeast Labs recommendations, you'd exceed the recommended pitching rate of 23m cells/ml with a 1.9l simple starter made from 2 smacks.

Over pitching has just as many consequences as under pitching. Taste, mouth feel, character, are all negatively affected by overpitching.

Both major yeast manufacturers agree that the calculator on mistermalty.com uses the absolute extreme outside high end of the envelope for pitching rates, and the extreme low end of their viability rates. The net effect being you drastically over pitch if you use that calculator.

A 4L simple starter with 1 pack is very close to a 1.6L simple starter with 2 packs. That isn't overpitching in this case. A 1L starter with one pack is significantly underpiching. No one is recommending overpitching here. MrMalty calculator might be a bit on the high side, but it isn't as grossly wrong as is being implied in this thread. If you don't want to make a 4L starter, then get a stir plate or buy an extra pack so you don't have to make such a large starter.

A blanket statement that a 1L starter is enough even for big beers is just wrong. If you are making a 1L starter with 2-3 packs of yeast, then that's a different story. Otherwise, it is underpitching.

Yeah, I was just saying that in terms of cell count, using just one pack, you'd need a 4L starter. Sure you can get two packs, or 3. Or you could just keep stepping up the yeast in a small starter with low growth rate and end up with a small starter with high concentration of cells.

If overpitching is such a huge issue then why do commercial breweries usually do it?