This is as of now purely conjecture....But I'm looking at the calendar, and despite the fact that it is 90 degrees out, and there are some things I want to brew now...In a scant 2 months it will be pumpkin beer time.
So if I want it, I gotta brew it...but the trouble is I don't know just WHAT kind of pumpkin beer I want come October. Will I want a pumpkin ale, or a pumpkin porter?
While I was washing dishes I was thinking about how to have the best of both worlds...A little bit o pumpkin porter and a little bit o pumpkin ale... and I know that I really don't want to have 5 gallons of each taking up space in my little loft...
So the question begs, just how do come up with a case of each, yet not have to dedicate 2 stovetop AG brewing sessions to achieving this.
The idea of doing it as a partyguile comes to mind....Mashing a batch of really strong porter...Draining off the first 3 or 3.5 gallon runnings as a 2.5 gallon batch of pumpkin porter...then sparging, and letting the second runnings be an very complex amber ale.
Of course to do this, the pumpkin would go in with the grain....
Now I haven't run any numbers yet, or even put any recipes together, but historically a Stout or Porter was the first running and then the brewer would pull off two more batches out of the mash, with the third one being a "table beer" that even kids would drink...So, except for the pumpkin and spices this really isn't something new..
The biggest drawback I can see, besides totally screwing everything up, is that even weaker, the flavor grainbill of the porter would still overpower the amber ale...but I could be wrong.
One option I thought of would be to work in some xldme into the amber, not so much as to raise the abv, but to hopefully mellow out some of the roastiness from the grains...
Another option that occurred to me would be to mash for an amber ale (if I use my haus amber as a base it would simply be 2-row and crystal 60) then for the FIRST runnings simply steep whatever darker/more roasty grains I would want into that for the porter.
That way the second beer, the amber, would be "clean," would just be 2-row, crystal 60, pumpkin, spices and hops...
I'm figuring I'd need a pretty high amount of pumpkin to stand up in the porter, and yet not disappear come time for the amber. Obviously I could always add more to the boil for both beers...
So any practical insight, ideas, recipes, advice, or dissuasion from you who have experience in both partyguile and pumpkin ales...
I'm not to far off the deep end, am I?
Edit, 2011
I though you should see the recipe, if you stumble upon the thread. I just discovered a 3 year old bottle and it is frekin amazing.
Partigyle Base
Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
1 lbs 8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
1 lbs 8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
Pumpkin Porter
(First Runnings)
Calculated as 60% of the original grainbill
2.5 gallon batch
(equivalent to)
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5 lbs 6.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
11.8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
11.8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
(Hops)
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
(Pumpkin/Spices)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.90 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 30.1 SRM
Pumpkin "Amber Ale"
(Second Runnings)
Calculated as 40% of Grainbill
2.5 Gallons
(Equivalent to)
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 4.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 85.06 %
4.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
4.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
(Hops)
0.61 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.20 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
(Pumpkin Spices Not Calculated Yet)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 15.0 SRM
So if I want it, I gotta brew it...but the trouble is I don't know just WHAT kind of pumpkin beer I want come October. Will I want a pumpkin ale, or a pumpkin porter?
While I was washing dishes I was thinking about how to have the best of both worlds...A little bit o pumpkin porter and a little bit o pumpkin ale... and I know that I really don't want to have 5 gallons of each taking up space in my little loft...
So the question begs, just how do come up with a case of each, yet not have to dedicate 2 stovetop AG brewing sessions to achieving this.
The idea of doing it as a partyguile comes to mind....Mashing a batch of really strong porter...Draining off the first 3 or 3.5 gallon runnings as a 2.5 gallon batch of pumpkin porter...then sparging, and letting the second runnings be an very complex amber ale.
Of course to do this, the pumpkin would go in with the grain....
Now I haven't run any numbers yet, or even put any recipes together, but historically a Stout or Porter was the first running and then the brewer would pull off two more batches out of the mash, with the third one being a "table beer" that even kids would drink...So, except for the pumpkin and spices this really isn't something new..
The biggest drawback I can see, besides totally screwing everything up, is that even weaker, the flavor grainbill of the porter would still overpower the amber ale...but I could be wrong.
One option I thought of would be to work in some xldme into the amber, not so much as to raise the abv, but to hopefully mellow out some of the roastiness from the grains...
Another option that occurred to me would be to mash for an amber ale (if I use my haus amber as a base it would simply be 2-row and crystal 60) then for the FIRST runnings simply steep whatever darker/more roasty grains I would want into that for the porter.
That way the second beer, the amber, would be "clean," would just be 2-row, crystal 60, pumpkin, spices and hops...
I'm figuring I'd need a pretty high amount of pumpkin to stand up in the porter, and yet not disappear come time for the amber. Obviously I could always add more to the boil for both beers...
So any practical insight, ideas, recipes, advice, or dissuasion from you who have experience in both partyguile and pumpkin ales...
I'm not to far off the deep end, am I?
Edit, 2011
I though you should see the recipe, if you stumble upon the thread. I just discovered a 3 year old bottle and it is frekin amazing.
Partigyle Base
Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11 lbs oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
1 lbs 8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
1 lbs 8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
Pumpkin Porter
(First Runnings)
Calculated as 60% of the original grainbill
2.5 gallon batch
(equivalent to)
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5 lbs 6.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
11.8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
11.8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
(Hops)
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
(Pumpkin/Spices)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.90 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 30.1 SRM
Pumpkin "Amber Ale"
(Second Runnings)
Calculated as 40% of Grainbill
2.5 Gallons
(Equivalent to)
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 4.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 85.06 %
4.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
4.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
(Hops)
0.61 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.20 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU
(Pumpkin Spices Not Calculated Yet)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 15.0 SRM