Would it be easier for me to add the dark malt at the end of the mash? Do I need the starch in the dark malts to be converted or do I just need to steep them?
Yes, that is definitely the easy way to do it. Crystals, black, chocolate, roast barley does not need to be mashed and the difference between doing it that way and successfully adjusting your alkalinity is subtle - any improvement from perfect water chemistry is overwhelmed by even minor fermentation issues. Definitely get a pH meter if you are going to think about adding alkalinity. If you don't want to mess around with pH meters, just brew and see how it turns out (either mashing everything or holding back dark grains).
No, don't hold back the dark grains. You need to add them and the acidity they bring in at one point or another.
Kai
No, don't hold back the dark grains. You need to add them and the acidity they bring in at one point or another.
Kai
so whats the pH we want now?
RA was invented to allow brewers making mostly base malt beers to compare water supplies. It became one of those things that brewers grabbed at in desperation in the hopes of finding things that would simplify this intricate subject. RA can be useful for the purpose for which it was intended but when I see people computing the RA of a mash my eyes roll.does RA matter?
No more than other scientists agree on everything.Does any of the experts in brewing "science" agree on anything related to water chemistry?
The OP's water is fine for brewing dark beers. If he brews the same recipe over and over with the same rigorously controlled ferment temps and gets everything else perfect, THEN he can stress out about chasing the subtle improvements (SUBTLE compared to everything else in the brewing process) that perfect water chemistry can add.
Maybe by then John Palmer will have finally published his water book that will revolutionize the way people think about brewing water.
Water chemistry and in particular its effects on mash pH can make a dramatic difference in the quality of the finished beer. Not perhaps as dramatic as the difference between infected and uninfected beer but still quite dramatic. The difference between beer that the drinker thinks is OK and beer which makes him say "Ahh, that's good beer".
The subject of brewing water is so complicated because it is so complicated. The "water chemistry experts" are not complicating matters, they are simply trying offer advice and guidence and share their vast amounts of knowledge and experience with you and other that seek it. Your sarcasm implies that you think they are overcomplicating matters and confusing new brewers. I believe they are providing a huge service and volunteering their time to try and explain to us non "water chemistry experts" what their opinions and experiences related to brewing water are.
I can fully understand how you think a few ppm of one mineral or a couple tenths of pH don't make a difference in a homebrewers beer. However, I would argue that small differences DO make all the difference in the world to our beers once we get to the point where all other aspects (fermentation temps, pitching rate, sanitation) are all dialed in. I also agree that the beginning or even average homebrewer shouldn't even be looking at their water (aside from chlorine/chloramine) removal, but....if they are advanced enough to get into all grain brewing then they should be advanced enough to try and understand their water, mash pH, and mineral content and the differences it can make in their final product.
If you do any reading on this forum at all you will see that all of the water experts that frequent it will tell you that personal taste is important and that your experiences may vary.
Anyway, thanks to all you "water chemistry experts" and the service and opinions you provide. I wouldn't know Sh*t about water without you and my beers would still suck by MY standards.
I was just in the beginning of 'really' trying to understand brewing water when AJ started posting. The primer made things easier but.....Add to that the ridiculous level of precision it takes to adjust 5 gallons of water a couple tenths of pH or a few ppm.
For now, I usually just consult the water primer and RDWHAHB
The primer made things easier but.....
Was the lime strictly to raise the pH to 5.4 meaning the 200+ alkalinity was just a side affect? 5.2 at room temperature? That would have been too low anyhow, no?Just to get back on topic here, I can tell the OP from personal experience that I prefer my dark beers, oatmeal stout specifically, with a much higher level of alkalinity and therefore higher mash pH than he is likely to get with his straight tap water. I've made my oatmeal stout with 100 alkalinity tap water, straight RO water, and tap water with lime additions to raise alkalinity over 200. The last batch I made with the higher alkalinity water is smoother, more flavorful, and has more body than the earlier batches I made. The RO water batch which is probably comparable to the OPs water came in at a very low 5.2 mash pH and was a little sharp tasting with the roast and hop bitterness kind of overpowering the beer. The last batch I made with the lime additions came in at a mash pH of 5.4 and I will add lime to this beer from now on because this is what I prefer.
Wow, 200 ppm alkalinity? That is higher than I would expect to need. But if it works for you, go with it. I also find that there are some benefits to keeping that mash pH from dropping too low with those acidic grists.
Was the lime strictly to raise the pH to 5.4 meaning the 200+ alkalinity was just a side affect? 5.2 at room temperature? That would have been too low anyhow, no?
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