La Fin Du Monde yeast harvest

So I'm finishing up my first AG (~7 hrs) and drinking a La Fin Du Monde. I saved a pint of boiled, cooled wort in a sterilized mason jar, and want to harvest the yeast from this beeaatch. Can I just drink most of the beer, and then poor the wort into the Fin du Monde bottle, and slap an airlock on there?

Also, does this beer use the same yeast for bottle conditioning? I started reading through a few threads but couldn't find a direct answer.

Edit: And I'm slightly drunk and trying to clean up my mess.

Thanks,

Not sure if they use a different bottling yeast, but Wyeast just had a private collection Canadian Belgian 3686 maybe? I have a Belgian IPA dry hopping that was made with this, and up next is a La Fin clone. I got mine from Brewmasters Warehouse, but they are out (just tried to order more). You may be able to find it somewhere, but its probably getting sparse.

They don't use a different yeast. It is said to be very easy to culture from the bottle. I got it from wyeast. It tastes like Duvel yeast with a tart finish to me. I just brewed starters for it and 1338 yesterday for a split 10 gallon batch of BGS next week.

I've harvested some of this yeast from a bottle of Le Fin du Monde and streaked it to a slant. It was slow to show growth - but seems to be doing well.

What's the best way to go about doing it? I just added a pint of wort from the brew I did today and put an airlock on it. I've never done it before, but it seems like science would say that, yeah, it'll work.

Trubadour said:

What's the best way to go about doing it? I just added a pint of wort from the brew I did today and put an airlock on it. I've never done it before, but it seems like science would say that, yeah, it'll work.

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Take the airlock off and replace it with a piece of loosely-fitting sanitized aluminum foil. What was the OG of the wort you added? Ideally, it should be between 1.030 and 1.040 to promote maximum yeast health.

It is slow, and you will have to bump it up several times. You will see almost NO activity for the first few days. Don't get discouraged.........and keep everything clean and sanitized and you'll be OK

The OG was 1.06, from a Harpoon IPA clone (loosely). Why should it be 1.030-1.040? Also, will an airlock screw it up? Why the foil? I have it in my fermentation fridge, which I don't necessarily trust with less than sealed. (it's old and kinda nasty)

Yeah, I thought I pitched near the same amount of yeast in my two 3 quart starters but the 1338 was at high kraeusen six hours before the 3864. The 3864 was a month younger.

Trubadour said:

The OG was 1.06, from a Harpoon IPA clone (loosely). Why should it be 1.030-1.040? Also, will an airlock screw it up? Why the foil? I have it in my fermentation fridge, which I don't necessarily trust with less than sealed. (it's old and kinda nasty)

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Temp is not that important for a starter. People seem to think using foil will aerate it better. I think if it's gassing CO2 it makes no difference either way.

You don't need very high OG, your just trying to grow the yeast population not make alcohol. The volume is important. Start small (4oz?) and build it up exponentially.

Trubadour said:

The OG was 1.06, from a Harpoon IPA clone (loosely). Why should it be 1.030-1.040? Also, will an airlock screw it up? Why the foil? I have it in my fermentation fridge, which I don't necessarily trust with less than sealed. (it's old and kinda nasty)

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1.030 - 1.040 provides enough sugar to sustain and grow the yeast without stressing them due to higher gravity. It's an ideal range. Slapping on an airlock won't screw it up, but the yeast needs oxygen for reproduction and you aren't getting any gas exchanged through a one-way valve like an airlock.

If you haven't listened to this already, I recommend it: The Brewing Network.com - :

yeast needs oxygen for reproduction and you aren't getting any gas exchanged through a one-way valve like an airlock.

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Once it's gassing of CO2 it's one way anyway.

niquejim said:

It is slow... You will see almost NO activity for the first few days. Don't get discouraged....

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+100 -- start it small and step it up.

I had an older tube of WLP530 in the fridge that I wasn't sure about, so I made a 1 qt starter (1.040 gravity) and pitched it in. It never krausened or anything, that I could tell. It just got cloudy. I was seriously gonna chuck it, but it smell suspiciously like beer. So I drained off the liquid and added another quart of 1.40 wort (from DME) on top of the creamy yeast at the bottom.

The damn yeast hit that DME so hard that I had krausen up to nearly the top of the one gallon jug. That means that the foam went nearly 4 times as high as the level of the liquid. Needless to say, that yeast was still plenty good.

I pitched that starter at high krausen that day into some 1.076 Belgian pilsner/sucrose wort and it damn near exploded. Activity within about 5 hours, had to rig a blow off tube by day 2, finally was able to put a regular airlock back on on day 5.

Conroe said:

Once it's gassing of CO2 it's one way anyway.

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Not when you swirl it, which you should be doing often anyway. Swirling is going to exchange a little gas with the outside world.

Conroe said:

Once it's gassing of CO2 it's one way anyway.

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Not on a stir plate or if you shake it intermittently. Even a simple starter that is left to ferment out with a loose fitting cap of foil will exchange gas. Besides, getting oxygen to the yeast is important before the ferment starts. The yeast need oxygen to process sterols for healthy cell wells. Once the yeast have grown to numbers adequate to ferment the starter wort and oxygen is depleted, then the anaerobic process of fermentation starts. Growth is an aerobic process.

The CO2 is heavier. I think you would have to do more than swirl to get it out, like a glass of watter it would have to spill over before being replaced by air. I could be wrong but I don't think so. Something like the old muscle car saying, there is no replacement without displacement. Even if you did get some air in it would just float out on a new bed of CO2.

Conroe said:

The CO2 is heavier. I think you would have to do more than swirl to get it out, like a glass of watter it would have to spill over before being replaced by air. I could be wrong but I don't think so.

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CO2 isn't nearly as heavy as water is, so the comparison doesn't hold up. You could blow into the bottle and the CO2 would blow out, but you couldn't do that with water.

Blowing into a starter sounds like a bad idea to me.

Conroe said:

Blowing in to a starter sounds like a bad idea to me.

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LOL... I didn't mean to suggest it was. Just making a point that CO2 isn't as heavy as water so it's more easily disturbed.

Please... no blowing your starters.

That only plays into the last of that post. You must displace the CO2 first, but then it only floats out on new CO2. Getting it to be absorbed into solution is a different story all together. Shaking it after replacing the CO2 with air would work. With foil? I don't think so.


You really think you are aerating it with foil or a foam stopper? I can't see the physics of that. The higher pressure in the flask alone makes it totally impossible.


BTW both my Duvel and Unibroue starters have now been stepped up to nearly one gallon (and have air locks on them.)

Conroe said:

That only plays into the last of that post. You must displace the CO2 first, but then it only floats out on new CO2. Getting it to be absorbed into solution is a different story all together. Shaking it after replacing the CO2 with air would work. With foil? I don't think so.

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Perhaps you can email Chris White of White Labs for his thoughts, or listen to the Brew Strong episode on yeast starters. He discusses gas exchange in some detail.

To me, it seems like you are arguing minutiae only to be contrary.

I guess I'll have too. Not one person here can give one reason why it would happen. Maybe next time I'm blowing on a soda straw I'll get pop in my mouth?

LOL.. you're still thinking gases and liquids are the same density and will react the same way.

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They do. Lighter ones will float on heavier ones.

I'm sticking to the fact that it make no difference after it starts gassing of CO2. Before? Maybe.

[Disclaimer] I used to think that the foil/airlock argument was moot too.

But.... It shouldn't be off gassing the entire time. The ferment should be very quick that is why you are stepping up every day, or every other day. After the very short ferment there will be time for some gas displacement, but you will also help with constant shaking and swirling.

It goes like this. Make wort, aerate, pitch, ferment, swirl, swirl, swirl etc, add more wort etc. etc. you should also be hitting each new step addition with a good sterile whack of O2.

Also if the gas exchange argument doesn't work for you then maybe the positive pressure argument will. The pressure from the air lock will, to a degree, impede growth and select for yeast mutation in a pressurized environment. This is negligible at F0, but as the generation count increases (F1, F2, F3, F4, etc.) the mutations will also become more apparent.

It is SOP to use a loose cover for yeast culturing.

Thanks SnickASaurusRex.

SnickASaurusRex said:

It is SOP to use a loose cover for yeast culturing.

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SOP?

Do you keep the culture in the fridge or just a dark place? Also, I guess remove the cover when swirling?

Trubadour said:

SOP?

Do you keep the culture in the fridge or just a dark place? Also, I guess remove the cover when swirling?

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SOP = standard operating procedure.

Leave the culture at room temperature. Leave the foil cap on during swirling, just make sure it's loose.

Conroe said:

You really think you are aerating it with foil or a foam stopper? I can't see the physics of that. The higher pressure in the flask alone makes it totally impossible.

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I was also thinking along these lines. What i tried with a starter recently was to use an airlock, but everytime i thought about it and walked by, removed the airlock and inserted a sanitized drinking straw into the bottle. I then sucked out (w/o breathing in) any CO2 present and swirlled. The general idea i was trying to achieve was to minimize any CO2 produces and maximize air exposure. It seemed to result in lot more activity than i usually get by just trying to swirl in air - i'm assuming because of the influx of air as opposed to the attempt to push out & displace the CO2 bed. Something to consider...

flyangler18 said:

Leave the culture at room temperature. Leave the foil cap on during swirling, just make sure it's loose.

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Maybe worth an experiement? I'm thinking a flask of water and introduce smoke, or something visible and heavier than air. Add foil and swirl to see if there is actually an exchange that many claim occurs. Just spitballing here.

Just put it in a mason jar, tighten the lid, and shake it several times a day. It's not rocket science. La Fin du Monde yeast is so easy to culture that my four year old could do it. I pretty much use it for everything as it ferments fast, clears well when cold crashed, and makes a great beer. I can buy a bottle for $2.00 here in Utah and have a starter ready in a few days AND I get to drink a great beer. It beats paying $7.00 for a vial of liquid yeast.

cactusgarrett said:

Maybe worth an experiement? I'm thinking a flask of water and introduce smoke, or something visible and heavier than air. Add foil and swirl to see if there is actually an exchange that many claim occurs. Just spitballing here.

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Have at it - but why experiment to prove/disprove something that has already been demonstrated to be true in any lab that is working with microbial cultures? This has been documented in the literature many, many times.

A stirplate is the most effective way to grow up a starter because it promotes gas exchange and gets oxygen to the yeast when used with either a foam plug on the flask or foil; Mr. Malty's calculator bears this out.

For me, this isn't a theoretical discussion - it's a practical one. I follow established lab procedure for growing yeast and my beer is better for it.

flyangler18 said:

A stirplate is the most effective way to grow up a starter because it promotes gas exchange and gets oxygen to the yeast when used with either a foam plug on the flask or foil; Mr. Malty's calculator bears this out.

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Understandable. I guess i neglected to mention that I don't use a stirplate, so my thoughts are from the point of view of non-continuous stirring. I, personally, believe a stirplate performs as you state.

Consult this excellent article: MB Raines, Ph.D. - Guide to Yeast Culturing for Homebrewers - Maltose Falcons Home Brewing Society (Los Angeles Homebrewing)

flyangler18 said:

Not on a stir plate or if you shake it intermittently. Even a simple starter that is left to ferment out with a loose fitting cap of foil will exchange gas. Besides, getting oxygen to the yeast is important before the ferment starts. The yeast need oxygen to process sterols for healthy cell wells. Once the yeast have grown to numbers adequate to ferment the starter wort and oxygen is depleted, then the anaerobic process of fermentation starts. Growth is an aerobic process.

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ChshreCat said:

Not when you swirl it, which you should be doing often anyway. Swirling is going to exchange a little gas with the outside world.

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I'm still at a loss as to why you singled me out for my statement. It still holds true. Aeration is very important up to high kraeusen. But I said after it gassing of CO2 it's essentially a one way valve anyway. That is indeed true. I hope we all learned something (that is the reason I'm here.)

Old thread reboot.

Does anyone know if Unbroue still bottles La Fin Du Monde with the primary yeast strain, or did they wise up? I have one bottle left that I might try to build yeast from.