yeast starter=pain

Another first for me, a yeast starter. The prep went well, to much water in the beeker, I had to grab the old baster and suck some out as the boil kicked in. I had a baby boil over.

Getting it down to the temp range was a process, down, to much, up, to much, finally in the range 70-80, Liquid yeast in and now the wait for bubble.

Seems like there is a great deal of potential for infection, checking the temp. I sanitized everything from my hands to the foil to the thermometer, repeatedly. Fingers crossed.

boil your starter wort in the pan not the flask if you are.
Then cool the pan in a ice bath. Keep your flask sanitized. Use a sanitized funnel to put wort into flask when its room temp, then pitch the yeast into the flask. Cover with a square of foil that has sanitizer sprayed on it. swirl as often as you walk by or use a stir plate.

pain free.

Keep a 5 gallon bucket of Star San RIGHT in the area of where you are making your starter(or brewing for that matter.) Toss everything that is to be used post boil in the bucket and wash and dunk your hands in the Star San constantly. I'll wash my hands up to 30 times during a 6 hour brew day, sanitizing almost as much. Same with bottling or anything else.

Holy YEASTIES!, woke up this morning to see wort all over the counter. Quick clean up, star sanning everything. Plug the bung in the beaker......bubble out again. A quick grab of the 3/8 hose, out with the airlock, in with the hose after a good star san spray and dip. The other end goes into the gallon of star san.

Any issues I should think about, with all this action.

What gravity is your starter wort?
What is the volume of your starter and how big is the vessel you're fermenting it in?
Do you have an airlock on your starter?

I've been using Growlers for my starters. I just put a peice of sanitized tin foil over the top of it.

PastorofMuppets said:

boil your starter wort in the pan not the flask if you are.
Then cool the pan in a ice bath. Keep your flask sanitized. Use a sanitized funnel to put wort into flask when its room temp, then pitch the yeast into the flask.

Click to expand...

Just be careful using this method. Make sure you thoroughly wipe the ice-bath water off the outside of the pan before pouring. I would also spray some Star-san on the side of the pan you'll be pouring from in case some of the wort curls around the edge of the pan as you pour.

I find it much simpler to boil in the flask while watching burner temps carefully.

after awhile you will build a routine for making starters just like everything elso. Get some de-foaming agent to help with boil overs and krausen. Its really a life saver in dealing with starters. Also, stir plates knock down alot of krausen as well.

scrapes said:

Holy YEASTIES!, woke up this morning to see wort all over the counter...
Any issues I should think about, with all this action.

Click to expand...

I am new at this and very wary of blow offs and other messes. It is much easier to contain spills than clean them up.

I always put unattended fermentation vessels in a second container to catch any overflow, like a 1 qt starter jar in an empty 5 gallon bucket, or a gallon container in a Rubbermaid bin.

For instance, when I try new bottles, I cap them and put them in a closed picnic cooler in the event of bottle bombs. The most recent test uses Goya 7 oz Malta bottles for a low carbonation porter. I did not have any DME on hand so I got an 8 pack of Malta to use as starter. It worked well. It tasted sour after the starting. I think that was a function of the beverage, not infection. The resulting green porter from the fermeter did not taste sour.

unionrdr said:

I do have a small,32cfm fan that was made for electronics cooling I could make a stir plate out of. Might just try that.

Click to expand...

thats basically what I used with a old cell phone charger, a project box, and rheostat switch and a few magnets. You would need a stir bar as well. ebay 5 bucks.

Minky said:

Just be careful using this method. Make sure you thoroughly wipe the ice-bath water off the outside of the pan before pouring. I would also spray some Star-san on the side of the pan you'll be pouring from in case some of the wort curls around the edge of the pan as you pour.

I find it much simpler to boil in the flask while watching burner temps carefully.

Click to expand...

I see what you are saying but nothing outside of the pan ever makes it into the flask, just wort.

you could also let it cool on the stove a bit and then pour directly into the flask and cool the flask more, since they are shatter proof.

PastorofMuppets said:

I see what you are saying but nothing outside of the pan ever makes it into the flask, just wort.

you could also let it cool on the stove a bit and then pour directly into the flask and cool the flask more, since they are shatter proof.

Click to expand...

This is one of those responses that I really don't get. If you understand what I'm saying, then you know that there is no way you could pull a pan out of an ice bath and pour the contents without at least a drop of that water ending up where it doesn't belong.

Besides, pouring out of a pan can at times be a little messy. If you don't do it just right, the contents dribble down the side of the pan.

If you have found a way to completely avoid these two mishaps from occurring, then my warning isn't intended for you.

A picture of my setup now, after the overflow. I was planning on brewing tomorrow. Do any of you see any problems? And no I don't have a gravity starting read.

That is star san its dumping into.

use fermcap... you wont need anything but a piece of sanitized foil.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/fermcap-s-1-oz.html

scrapes said:

And no I don't have a gravity starting read.

Click to expand...

How much water and DME did you use? I just brewed a tripel so I made a starter for the first time. I used 1 liter of water and 3/4 cup of dme. i didn't even notice the fermentation, but it was in a brown glass growler and only sat overnight so fermentation probably started and stopped during the night.

One thing I noticed that when I use a stirplate I don't get a huge formation of krausen going up the glass so perhaps this is just what I have found. Also I am interested in how much dme you used to have enough blow off to need a tube on that? Never experienced that much blow off from a starter before but you sure know your yeast are going to be happy in your wort.

This was my first starter, followed directions from the my LHBS, I used 1/2 pound of DME, a dash of yeast nutrient, and 900 ml water. Irish ale yeast, wet.

I boiled in the beaker, chilled it to proper temp, added yeast. By morning a bit messy. I think I handled it well, quick change from the air lock to the blow off and a gallon of star san.

I already know what I'd do different, anti foam, boil in a pan....

BradleyBrew said:

thats basically what I used with a old cell phone charger, a project box, and rheostat switch and a few magnets. You would need a stir bar as well. ebay 5 bucks.

Click to expand...

I like the idea of a fan out of a junk computer supply and magnets out of way old, way undersized computer hard drives. Everyone keeps lots of these around forever, don't they?

unionrdr said:

I made the same mistake when I bought my 1000mL erlenmyer flask last weekend. 1/2lb of the wrong bag of DME in 800mL of boiled & cooled water. Took a few days & cold crash to decant & use. Won't use but a fraction of that next time.

Click to expand...

Generally you don't learn much that you didn't already know from your successes. Nothing teaches like failure or better yet, not quite rite.

unionrdr said:

I made the same mistake when I bought my 1000mL erlenmyer flask last weekend. 1/2lb of the wrong bag of DME in 800mL of boiled & cooled water. Took a few days & cold crash to decant & use. Won't use but a fraction of that next time.

Click to expand...

I am glad to hear of your experience with the 1L I too saw the recent sales on them and thought long and hard and in the end thought I might rather go the 2L route. After your post now I am sure the next time they roll around on sale it will be 2L.
Thanks for your personal experience........so hopefully I won't have to duplicate it for myself.

scrapes said:

Holy YEASTIES!, woke up this morning to see wort all over the counter. Quick clean up, star sanning everything. Plug the bung in the beaker......bubble out again. A quick grab of the 3/8 hose, out with the airlock, in with the hose after a good star san spray and dip. The other end goes into the gallon of star san.

Any issues I should think about, with all this action.

Click to expand...

Note to self, don't use an airlock or blowoff in a starter. Instead use a piece of sanitized foil lightly crimped around the top. You actually want an air exchange to take place with a starter.

scrapes said:

This was my first starter, followed directions from the my LHBS, I used 1/2 pound of DME, a dash of yeast nutrient, and 900 ml water. Irish ale yeast, wet.

I boiled in the beaker, chilled it to proper temp, added yeast. By morning a bit messy. I think I handled it well, quick change from the air lock to the blow off and a gallon of star san.

I already know what I'd do different, anti foam, boil in a pan....

Click to expand...

First mistake was your DME ratio... it's 10:1 (10ml water to 1g DME).
There are 453.5 grams in a lb.
You used a half pound, so 227 grams.
That is enough to do 2.27 liter starter. You did a .9 liter starter... that's why it foamed over.

Second mistake was not checking the OG of the starter... it should be 1.040.

Third mistake was using a bubbler... like others have said, it's unnecessary, and not suggested. Use foil.

acidrain said:

First mistake was your DME ratio... it's 10:1 (10ml water to 1g DME).
There are 453.5 grams in a lb.
You used a half pound, so 227 grams.
That is enough to do 2.27 liter starter. You did a .9 liter starter... that's why it foamed over.

Second mistake was not checking the OG of the starter... it should be 1.040.

Third mistake was using a bubbler... like others have said, it's unnecessary, and not suggested. Use foil.

Click to expand...

so my LHBS may have been a little short on directions

unionrdr said:

I made the same mistake when I bought my 1000mL erlenmyer flask last weekend. 1/2lb of the wrong bag of DME in 800mL of boiled & cooled water. Took a few days & cold crash to decant & use. Won't use but a fraction of that next time.

Click to expand...

so you won't be using as much DME? in 800 ml? One question runs into two more.

scrapes said:

so my LHBS may have been a little short on directions

Click to expand...

Ha, wouldn't be the first time.
Personally, I'd go back and let 'em know... that was just wrong. Obviously, they are in the business of selling DME.

Just like with "regular" fermentation, starters only need the O2 up to the point of ethanol production, once that starts there is no benefit at all to air or O2, so if you are seeing fermentation activity there is nothing wrong with an airlock or blowoff tube. If you use pure O2 up front there is nothing wrong with an airlock right away.

Using FermCap I can run a 2L starter in a 2L flask no problem. I have 2 of them and 2 stir plates so if I split a vial between them it is the same as doing a single 4L starter.

I heat the starter wort to 180 then shut the burner off and time for 10 minutes. This allows plenty of time for the pasteurization process and also allows me to cool the starter faster (flask(s) in an ice bath).

helibrewer said:

Just like with "regular" fermentation, starters only need the O2 up to the point of ethanol production, once that starts there is no benefit at all to air or O2, so if you are seeing fermentation activity there is nothing wrong with an airlock or blowoff tube. If you use pure O2 up front there is nothing wrong with an airlock right away.

Using FermCap I can run a 2L starter in a 2L flask no problem. I have 2 of them and 2 stir plates so if I split a vial between them it is the same as doing a single 4L starter.

I heat the starter wort to 180 then shut the burner off and time for 10 minutes. This allows plenty of time for the pasteurization process and also allows me to cool the starter faster (flask(s) in an ice bath).

Click to expand...

The yeast use the oxygen for sterol formation which is a vital component of yeast reproduction. If you can get enough dissolved O2 at the beginning then no worries on the airlock. However if you are a cheap lazy person like me then you just toss it on the stir plate with foil and enjoy a beer.

To the OP: I used to hate making starters because I didn't enjoy the extra three steps before brew day. Now I love making them because I developed a system which works for me. It is like a countdown to each brew day.

kaconga said:

The yeast use the oxygen for sterol formation which is a vital component of yeast reproduction. If you can get enough dissolved O2 at the beginning then no worries on the airlock. However if you are a cheap lazy person like me then you just toss it on the stir plate with foil and enjoy a beer.

To the OP: I used to hate making starters because I didn't enjoy the extra three steps before brew day. Now I love making them because I developed a system which works for me. It is like a countdown to each brew day.

Click to expand...

True, my point was that once there's krausen there is no more benefit to O2, in fact O2 can take the yeast down the glycolysis pathway instead of alcoholic fermentation. I realize we're not making beer but we do want healthy yeast that will eventually make beer

After reading these replies, I'm a bit aggravated with my HBS and the lousy advice, will the large amount of DME I used affect the finished product? A screw up?

I think my next batch is going to be a simple wheat beer, I have a lot to learn.

scrapes said:

After reading these replies, I'm a bit aggravated with my HBS and the lousy advice, will the large amount of DME I used affect the finished product? A screw up?

I think my next batch is going to be a simple wheat beer, I have a lot to learn.

Click to expand...

Chalk it up to learning, good advice through the thread and no, you made a starter and your beer will be better for it regardless.

BTW, even an easy wheat beer made with liquid yeast will still require a starter

thanks duboman, thats what I figure, its all learning, a process.

Just a follow up, the OG was 1.060 is currently 1.016, its fairly clear, smells great, and yea the sample was tasty. A few more days and into the bottles.

Beer happens, its wonderful.