Yikes! Fermentation bucket not sealed for two days.

Two days ago I took a hydro reading on my ale. Things are coming alone nicely and I put the lid on and the airlock back in place. It takes a while for pressure to make the airlock bubble which is normal so I placed the bucket back in the garage. Over the course of the next two days I noticed it stopped bubbling, so today I figured I would take another reading and place the ale in a secondary. I noticed that the lid was not seated all the way. I re-seated the bucket and about ever three minutes I get bubble action. I then opened the lid...No infection. So into the secondary it goes!

Will there be any issues I should be aware of since the ale was not sealed for two days?

Thanks,
Ben

I'm no expert, but your fermentation is probably putting enough gas off nothing could get in. I've even heard of people not using an airlock and just having a loose lid, I don't think it's recommended, but I'm sure you're fine.

Will there be any issues I should be aware of since the ale was not sealed for two days?

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Most likely not.

I ferment my first batch in 10 gal bucket with loose lid and no signs of contamination after 2 weeks. I did transfered it to secondary on day 6 though

doesn't need sealed Bacteria are not ninjas. If they can't fall in, you're good.

IrregularPulse said:

doesn't need sealed Bacteria are not ninjas. If they can't fall in, you're good.

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That's funny. Thanks for the good news.

alaskanmoosehunter said:

I then opened the lid...No infection.

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This was your only real mistake here. Opening the fermenter just to check for infections actually increases your risk for infection and disturbs the co2 blanket over the beer.

Also you don't need to take gravity readings to see how things are coming along. It may seem like nice information, but knowing whether your fermentation is almost at terminal gravity or only halfway there is really pretty meaningless. If your airlock is still going regularly, chances are it's still fermenting. When visible signs of fermentation have subsided and you're ready to bottle or transfer, that's the time to take a gravity reading. Check it again in 3 days to verify that it's stable if you're not sure and want to bottle right away.

Patience can be hard, but step back and let the yeast do their thing.

If things are bubbling, why are you even thinking about racking it to secondary??????

Revvy said:

If things are bubbling, why are you even thinking about racking it to secondary??????

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Revvy, what's your point, I guess I'm confused. Isn't the main reason of the secondary to clear the beer up as opposed to boost fermentation?

You want to wait until fermentation is done before you move it to a secondary. Many people here, myself included, generally don't use a secondary anymore. Just the amount of time you would secondary to your primary time. That will still allow the beer to clear in the primary.

Shackled said:

You want to wait until fermentation is done before you move it to a secondary. Many people here, myself included, generally don't use a secondary anymore. Just the amount of time you would secondary to your primary time. That will still allow the beer to clear in the primary.

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I see... thanks.

I wonder though, why so many folks still do a secondary if the benefit of not doing it for ales is similar??? Is it just habit? I'm asking because I have a high-sediment stout on fermentaion for 15 days now and thinking about secondary it, but still questioning if it's worth the time.

I was reading on byo that you need to rack to secondary PRIOR fermintation is 100% complete, this way after you rack it in secondary head space will be quickly filled with CO2 and replace oxygen which is makes perfect sense. They say 6-7 days max in primary if you are planning to use secondary. I know this debate been on forever but if you find that article in "Fermentation" section its quite interesting

Here, found it for ya:

What is the ideal time to rack your beer into the secondary fermenter?

From what I have read alot of people will still use secondary for dry hopping or adding fruit to a beer. And I personally think alot of people still do it with all of the beers just because thats the way it was done for a long time and everyone was told to do it.

As for your stout, if the active fermentation has pretty much stopped then there really isnt much harm that can be done by transferring it if you rack carefully and everything is sanitized.

Indyking said:

Revvy, what's your point, I guess I'm confused. Isn't the main reason of the secondary to clear the beer up as opposed to boost fermentation?

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My point is, why are you contemplating racking to secondary (if you chose to use it) before fermentation is complete?

If you do decide to secondary, which few of us do anymore for our regular beers, you really should wait til fermentation is complete, and even a little longer to get some benefit from the yeast's desire to clean up the byproducts of fermentation that lead to off flavors.

If I rack I don't even contemplate doing it until 2 weeks after yeast pitch. To give plenty of time for the yeast to do the job and clean.

Technically you determine when fermentation is complete by taking 2 consequetive hydrometer readings over 3 days, I'll usually take the first one on day 12 and then on day 14.

Where fermentation is concerned, If you arbitrarily move your beer, like to follow the silly 1-2-3 rule, you will often interrupt fermentation. Because sometimes the yeast won't even begin to ferment your beer until 72 hours after yeast pitch, so if you rush the beer off the yeast on day 7 then you are only allowing the yeast a few days to work.


Actually taking it off the yeast too soon prevents some much needed cleanup (and the true secondary fermentation period) from happenning. That's why many of us have opted for LONG primary/No secondary. Instead of rushing the beer off the yeast cake before the job is done. The yeast are very tenacious creatures, and if we actually leave them the heck alone, and not move them too soon, they will actually clean up after themselves, and remove their own waste/by products of fermentation, and actually will lead to cleaner, clearer and fresher tasting beers.


Here's some reading for you.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/second-ferm-racking-128440/#post1438252

And the discussion here, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/multiple-questions-about-secondary-fermentation-140978/#post1601829

But more importantly this discusses the fact that many folks including jamil and palmer have backed off from that yeast phobia and are embracing long primaries and prolonged yeast contact.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/


You'll find that more and more recipes these days do not advocate moving to a secondary at all, but mention primary for a month, which is starting to reflect the shift in brewing culture that has occurred in the last 4 years, MOSTLY because of many of us on here, skipping secondary, opting for longer primaries, and writing about it. Recipes in BYO have begun stating that in their magazine. I remember the "scandal" it caused i the letters to the editor's section a month later, it was just like how it was here when we began discussing it, except a lot more civil than it was here. But after the Byo/Basic brewing experiment, they started reflecting it in their recipes.

Now more and more recipes even in BYO advocate a minimum of 2 weeks in primary, but nowadays are even says skip secondary leave in primary for 3-4 weeks then bottle.

But if you do rack to secondary, you really want to wait til fermentation is complete.

What can I say... fantastic post by Revvy, thank you very much!

But I think this whole secondary thing is a mess. I tend to agree with you Revvy: WAIT TIL FERMENTATION IS COMPLETE.

But then, others with good advice too, like Boerderij_Kabouter , says racking to a secondary should occur when between 2/3 and 3/4 of fermentable sugars were consumed and racking when less than 3/4 of fermentation is remaining is bad idea. He claims the benefits of doing so are significant.

So, really, as much as I would like to condition my stout properly, I think I will just be safer leaving it alone in the primary for much longer until bottling day and skiping the whole secondary dilemma

Indyking said:

What can I say... fantastic post by Revvy, thank you very much!

But I think this whole secondary thing is a mess. I tend to agree with you Revvy: WAIT TIL FERMENTATION IS COMPLETE.

But then, others with good advice too, like Boerderij_Kabouter , says racking to a secondary should occur when between 2/3 and 3/4 of fermentable sugars were consumed and racking when less than 3/4 of fermentation is remaining is bad idea. He claims the benefits of doing so are significant.

So, really, as much as I would like to condition my stout properly, I think I will just be safer leaving it alone in the primary for much longer until bottling day and skiping the whole secondary dilemma

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The discussion of both theories of racking is thoroughly covered on both sides in the two threads linked along with the Jamil thread in my previous post (see the one entitled "multiple questions about secondary fermentation." At it seems even Boerderij rarely talks about it anymore. But there's plenty of information to help folks make up their mind.

And a lot of that information (like Fix's book referenced) still came from a time where folks were afraid of their yeast and were convinced that it was going to automatically autolyse on the 8th day after yeast pitch, which we now know to be total BS, and many folks have left their beer on the yeast for 6 months with little or no issue, and so we've found that leaving it a month is a non issue, and may be GOOD for the beer, so if yeast is good at cleaning up after itself, then racking early take the yeast off the best yeast to do the cleanup.

But I have found that the vast majority of issues that new brewers have in terms of fermentations stuck at 1.020 and such, and even some off flavor issues tend to be because they arbitarily racked after 7 days like older info based on yeast phobia used to advocate (1-2-3 rule for instance), and factoring in a lag time on the yeast are taking it of really early even earlier than the 2/3 and 3/4 talked about...they usually aren't even taking a hydro reading and don't even know how far along their fermentation actually is. They may even be only 1/4 of way into fermentation when they decide to rack it over without reading.

If someone is opting to move their beer when it is 2/3-3/4 fermented, then they really should be making that decision based on a gravity reading, and not a calendar or a bubbling airlock.

But most of us have come to the conclusion that there are many ways to skin a brewing cat, and it is no longer what is the best way, but what is the best way for us.....

Revvy said:

The discussion of both theories of racking is thoroughly covered on both sides in the two threads linked along with the Jamil thread in my previous post (see the one entitled "multiple questions about secondary fermentation." At it seems even Boerderij rarely talks about it anymore. But there's plenty of information to help folks make up their mind.

And a lot of that information (like Fix's book referenced) still came from a time where folks were afraid of their yeast and were convinced that it was going to automatically autolyse on the 8th day after yeast pitch, which we now know to be total BS, and many folks have left their beer on the yeast for 6 months with little or no issue, and so we've found that leaving it a month is a non issue, and may be GOOD for the beer, so if yeast is good at cleaning up after itself, then racking early take the yeast off the best yeast to do the cleanup.

But I have found that the vast majority of issues that new brewers have in terms of fermentations stuck at 1.020 and such, and even some off flavor issues tend to be because they arbitarily racked after 7 days like older info based on yeast phobia used to advocate (1-2-3 rule for instance), and factoring in a lag time on the yeast are taking it of really early even earlier than the 2/3 and 3/4 talked about...they usually aren't even taking a hydro reading and don't even know how far along their fermentation actually is. They may even be only 1/4 of way into fermentation when they decide to rack it over without reading.

If someone is opting to move their beer when it is 2/3-3/4 fermented, then they really should be making that decision based on a gravity reading, and not a calendar or a bubbling airlock.

But most of us have come to the conclusion that there are many ways to skin a brewing cat, and it is no longer what is the best way, but what is the best way for us.....

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Yep, I read some of it... I guess it's just a matter of personal choice to choose between one of the 2 theories.

My stout is done fermenting after 15 days, although the airlock was still bubbling (just every 20 minutes or so) 2 days ago, which was very surprising.

I was thinking to secondary it just because I got a glass carboy in my used AG equipment deal and I was interested to see through the glass how the wort clears up and change during conditioning. May still do it...

yeah don't move it to a secondary if it's still fermenting i think is what revvy was saying. using bubbles as an indication of fermentation status isn't a good idea, but if you do see bubbles, you know at least fermentation is definitely not done and probably not close.

sounds to me like you will be fine. open fermentation (without a lid or anything) is done, but from what i gather, you really need to know what you're doing. i don't feel comfortable doing it myself, at least not yet. it can allow in wild yeast that can contribute some apparently interesting falvors and characteristics to your beer. but it can also allow in bacteria obviously, so you need to know what you're doing. i think the trappist monks use open fermentation but i could be mistaken. i know it's a very old brewing method that is used by some brewers. i think you'll be fine

If you are just starting out, it's natural to want faster turnaround to get drinkin! Ideally for most common brews you should wait a month in your primary and then bottle or keg it. Some stronger/darker/specialty beers will take longer. But hopefully you can build up your 'stockpile' by the time you are ready to do those beers.

Beginners (like myself) do well with basic ales because many simple ales can be rushed if you need them to be. I ran out in between batch 3 and 4 and did a Peak Pale Ale from brewngrow.com. After 8 days the krausen had subsided and I kegged it up (even though it COULD have sat longer), force carbonated it, and at day ten it was lovely to drink although hazey and still a bit fresh. It lasted 2.5 weeks in the keg and the last week or so (20-27 days total after brewing) it was just great.

Now my setup is 3 primary fermenters so I can let each batch age 3-4 weeks, and two corney kegs. Still adding! Kegs are great and extra kegs allow you to pressurize the beer after it's done fermenting. Then you just leave it for a week or two to condition and then chill and serve.

paraordnance said:

Here, found it for ya:

What is the ideal time to rack your beer into the secondary fermenter?

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It is articles like these that mislead inexperienced brewers.
Myself included, when I first started I thought this article was gospel. Its not. Thanks for everyone who chimed in before me, do not rack into your secondary before fermentation is complete.

Secondary does 2 things: Bulk ages and allows more particles to drop out of your beer as time goes on. Thats it. It does not need a 'CO2 barrier', that is purely hypothetical nanny coddling theory written by someone who is a good writer - but not an experienced homebrewer. Sure, a CO2 barrier would be awesome insurance. However, there is a risk of underfermenting (and maybe even stressing your yeast? Correct me if I am wrong?) your beer if you rack it off too early.

Also, if your yeast produced Diecytl (or however you spell it), the beer should stay on the primary trub until it can 'scrub' it away. There are also specific styles of beer that you should secondary for long aging, or dryhopping as some find it makes it easier using a secondary when dryhopping.

Facts aside, for me using a secondary is a PITA and is like wearing a helmet while sleeping.

Just me 2 bits Brew on :rockin: