Dark Lord Clone - help with recipe/technique

Just a suggestion on the yeast but I've had fairly good luck giving the yeast an extra shot of oxygen the day after initial pitch. The yeast is still more than active enough to scrub all of that o2 back out and just keeps it healthy longer to keep it from throwing off more high alcohols instead of ethanol.

Thanks! I'll do that. Looking back over this thread I was reminded that the temp on this thing hit the upper 70's (Ack!!) so that is why I have all these fusels. I will do much better this year.

Think I can do this with a couple stepped up starts on a stir-plate or do I need a yeast cake?

You can for sure get enough yeast from a starter if you want. If it was me, I would just make another beer, like a porter or something. This will take a huge number of cells and it just seems like it would be a pain to make a starter of that magnitude.

This is awesome. When are you brewing your third batch? I'm only going to be brewing my first AG this weekend (Haus Pale Ale) but I'd like to brew a batch of DL this fall. I've got a couple of 2008 bottles from DLD to compare when it's done. Good luck!

I brewed a 13% IPA using the cal ale yeast and I just did it with a starter. It was a fairly large starter to be sure, but I didn't feel the need to brew a beer for the yeast cake. I did read the part about letting the beer get into the upper 70's and thought that was probably going to be too high. I'm really hoping I'll be able to keep the beer around 66 for the first few days, and then raise the temp gradually after that to help the yeast finish. My honey/molasess/part of my extract will also be going in after a large part of the primary fermentation is done. I did this with my dextrose addition on my IPA and it worked very well.

*Edit*
Just reread the part where you said you're adding the honey/molasses/DME after primary fermentation has died down.

andypantz13 said:

I brewed a 13% IPA using the cal ale yeast and I just did it with a starter. It was a fairly large starter to be sure, but I didn't feel the need to brew a beer for the yeast cake. I did read the part about letting the beer get into the upper 70's and thought that was probably going to be too high. I'm really hoping I'll be able to keep the beer around 66 for the first few days, and then raise the temp gradually after that to help the yeast finish. My honey/molasess/part of my extract will also be going in after a large part of the primary fermentation is done. I did this with my dextrose addition on my IPA and it worked very well.

*Edit*
Just reread the part where you said you're adding the honey/molasses/DME after primary fermentation has died down.

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm planning a ferment at 65, the upper 70's was a bad bad mistake. I hope to be brewing this one sometime this week or next, depends on when I can get some time.

Since this is such a big beer, how much of these batches were you able to retain after all the trub loss and so forth? I'm thinking about giving this a shot next month and just trying to figure out how much I'd be able to bottle from a 3gallon batch.

Any feedback on this recipe yet? I figure at this point, a bottle or two would have been cracked!

conpewter said:

After primary ferementation has died down, add in Honey, Molassas, and however much extract needed to hit the gravity needed (calculated after getting the OG before fermentation)

Click to expand...

Is your target SG still 1.131 at this point? Or are you trying to add whatever number of points you need to get the difference between the target SG and your OG? ie add all the above so you get an increase of points = 1.131 - OG
where OG is probably about 1.091.

I had a thought after going to the indian store and picking up some jaggery. There was two types the last time I went. Kitul jaggery (the palm sugar version) which was dark like dark brown sugar dark, and the regular pale stuff from cane sugar. Anyhow I recall reading about the molasses and after tasting the dark sugar there is a slight molasses flavor. Plus I recall reading something about indian sugar being used in Dark Lord. So it would make sense to me to use some of this dark palm jaggery instead of honey and molasses.

Also I'm interested in some tasting results from other's brewing experiences with this recipe.

Bueller.......Bueller.......

Anyone have success stories?

Wondering how the coffee flavor is on the latest recipe? I am looking to do a big coffee stout in a couple of weeks and am looking to get a similar flavor profile to Dark Lord or Goose Island Bourbon County Coffee stout. Was wondering if this was anything at all like those.

Also, how coarse of a grind did you use on your beans?

Hey all, I haven't gotten back to this. I haven't brewed much in the last year really so I've not repeated the original recipe or any variation, sorry for the lack of feedback. The original recipe is still in a carboy in hopes that the hot alcohol flavor will fade, it hasn't. The fact that I let the fermentation temp get up so high means I can't even really evaluate the original recipe fully.

The holdback on this is that I need to brew a smaller beer first so I can use that yeast cake, but I've been having infection issues in the brewery for the last year, one of the reasons I've not brewed much. If anyone else wants to take a stab at this, or any other recipe for Dark Lord please keep me up to date, it is still my and my wife's favorite beer.

Well I haven't done a Dark Lord clone persay but I have brewed up two separate over the top RIS brews. My most recent concoction sound end up about 16.5% if it gets down to the 1.020 that I want. I used 3lbs of the darkest Indian jaggery I could find. I also used WLP001 for the bulk of primary fermentation and then added a second big starter of WLP099. Since I am not well versed in caring for such a over the top fermentation the beer has slightly stalled but I just added more yeast on wednesday last week. It seems to be SLOWLY moving down. It tastes good and is sitting on oak cubes at the moment finishing up.

Hi:
Where do you get the oak and how long do you leave the bourbon infused oak pieces in?
Thanks.

I bought Stavin "oak beans" which are oak cubes. I purchased medium toast hungarian oak due to it's reported impact on vanillin. Cubes can be left in for up to six months and at that point the manufacturer ( I think its them) claims the cubes are fully extracted at that point. Also no one says you have to use bourbon soaked oak. Its just that here in the US bourbon barrels are the cheapest/easiest to get second hand since they're all one use barrels. Other distilleries that make other beverages tend to reuse barrels quite a bit.

Any updates on this?

bump

reading this thread sounds interesting for this recipe. Now the question I have is about the honey and molasses. Should you stir it in, because honey does not ferment well when sitting on the bottom. Is it not a problem for oxidation in the last part of the primary when adding these items as well as the DME?

conpewter - any updates to the recipe? Have you brewed it recently?

This months issue of BYO has a very detailed and thorough recipe and process for this clone. It's the best information I've seen regarding replicating this insane beer. I've had it a few times and I am sure it would tax the limits of my system and will probably take it down just a touch. 1.165 I think is the OG for the clone.
Ill be doing it when the weather warms up enough for outside brewing. Maybe this will resurrect this thread.
I will certainly post my progress/results.

On Christmas eve I brewed up a 1.136 RIS. Going to check gravity in the next few days to see where I am at.

Indiana Red said:

This months issue of BYO has a very detailed and thorough recipe and process for this clone. It's the best information I've seen regarding replicating this insane beer.

Click to expand...

Would you be so kind as to post the recipe for those of us that do not get BYO?

Hopefully you can read that

Thanks. Wow! That's one hell of brew day. Somebody's got to try this, no?

I'm going to try it this year. I don't think beersmith can handle 2 mashes and adding the second mash to the boil though.

Right, I have another post in the software section about that exact issue re: Beersmith
Maybe just treat the result of the first mash and long boil as simply an addition to the boil like you would consider LME.
6.5G of 1.065 for 4hrs will get you..what... about 2G of 1.250 depending on your boil-off rates.

Also note in the recipe that the addition of the hop extract is not mentioned in the process. Probably goes in at the standard 60min to go, mark during the "second" boil.
Never used hop extract before. So, just assuming that timing.

That's a good idea Indiana treating the first boil as an extract addition because that's basically what your making for the first part anyways. The all grain recipe says hopshot at beginning of boil, even if it's the second boil that would be at 90 min left. If you read the second version (extract with grains) it says add hopshot at 60 min and boil.

pretty cool guys!

As far as my recipes go I've brewed twice now something that I think is close (and it think it is extremely tasty) but I'll have to give this clone a try, thank you for posting about it!!

(My current recipe for my closeToDarkLordClone, but officially named "panty dropper RIS" around my home)
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.00 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
couple handfulls of Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 3.92 %
3 lbs Light Extract during fermentation (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 11.76 %
16 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 62.75 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 5.88 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3.92 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 2.94 %
12.0 oz Roasted Barley (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.94 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.96 %
8.0 oz Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) Grain 1.96 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 1.96 %
1.50 oz Magnum [14.50 %] (120 min) Hops 53.1 IBU
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
3.00 items Vanilla Beans (Secondary 2.0 weeks) Misc
4.00 oz Oak chips - soaked in bourbon (Secondary 14.0 days) Misc
16.50 gal Water
Irish ale yeast cake


Est Original Gravity: 1.125 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.029 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 12.70 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 14.02 %
Bitterness: 53.1 IBU Calories: 666 cal/pint

Mash Profile

Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
45 min Mash In Add 7.03 gal of water at 171.8 F 158.0 F

Add 3 vanilla beans split and scraped in secondary along with the oak cubes soaked in bourbon.

mashed at 151 for 60 min.

After primary ferementation has died down, extract needed to hit the gravity needed (calculated after getting the OG before fermentation)

I'll be trying this... but may have to wait a little while!

Dark Lord Recipe BYO Magazine
5 gallons, all-grain
OG = 1.169
FG = 1.054
IGU = 100+
SRM = 73
ABV = 15%

27.8 lbs Great Western Northwestern Pale Ale malt (4 L)
1.7 lbs Simpsons Golden Naked Oats malt
10.2 oz SImpsons Medium crystal malt (55 L)
13.3 oz Crisp Extra dark crystal malt (120 L)
1.3 lbs pale chocolate malt (200 L)
1.1 lbs Simpsons chocolate malt (430 L)
13.6 oz Simpsons black malt (550 L)
9.4 oz flaked oats
2.7 lb jaggery/Panela/Gur sugar (10 L) (10 min)
18 mL CO2 hop extract (Start of boil) 62%AA
1 tablet whirlfloc (10 min)
.5 tsp yeastex nutrient (10 min)
2 mexican vanilla beans
2.5-5 oz coffee beans
2 packs wyeast 1968 (London ESB ale) or white labs WLP002 English Ale Yeast
2 packs Wyeast 1056 (American Ale) or white labs wlp001 (california Ale) yeast
Lallemand CBC-1 or other high alcohol tolerant yeast strain if priming
2/3 cup corn sugar if priming

Make a 3 L starter with all 4 packs on a stir plate. After complete, put in fridge to let it flocculate.
(I'll probably do a cake of 1968 and then add a decanted 1056 starter... or just packs of US05...)

2 mashes on brew day
Mash #1 16.7 lb of pale malt
22.25 q water
mash at 159F
mash out, vorlauf
170F sparge till you collect 6.5 gallons of wort
preboil at 1.065
boil 4 hours

Start mash #2 at the 3 hour mark
11.1 lb pale malt
Rest of grains above
22.25q water
mash at 159F
mash out, vorlauf
Collect 3.5 gallons of first runnings wort
if needed sparge at 170F to get total wort volume to 6.5
"preboil" now at 1.124
boil 90 min,
add additional ingredients at 10 min left
adjust to 1.169 post boil SG with extract if needed

Chill to 62, oxygenate with pure O2 for 90 seconds
Pitch yeast
after 12-24 hours then oxygenate again with pure O2 for 60 seconds
again fermenting at 62-64F degrees
Ferment 7 days then raise temp to 70F
Ferment 7 days then move to secondary (1-3 weeks)
Make a tincture from two vanilla beans and just enough good vodka to cover, age 5 days
Add tincture to secondary
age for 8 days minimum
(optional to barrel age, add another vanilla bean tincture for ~six months or to taste)
Before bottling add 2.5-5oz of whole bean coffee in a muslin bag to secondary
1. Intelligentsia black cat (pre-2014 Dark Lord)
or
2. Dark Matter Unicorn Blood (2014-2015 Dark Lord)

age for 24-48 hrs at 38 degrees then bottle as normal but add additional yeast (US-05) at bottling

When kegging, shoot for 2-2.25 volumes CO2
Add above described coffee beans to empty keg in a muslin bag and remove after 24-48 hours of aging at 38 degrees

Once carbonated condition at cellar temperature for several months

Based on your experience, what are you estimating for boil-off on that first mash?

If I do the recipe as lined out (I may cheat and just use pale malt extract instead of an all-pale malt mash) I expect 10% boil off per hour unless I put a fan on it (which will increase it some). So 40% boil-off brings me down to ~3.5 gallons, so the first runnings of the second mash should get me close to the 6.5 predicted in the recipe. I wouldn't mind collecting 7 gallons and boiling down to 6.5 before I add hop extract and start my 60 minute timer

Indiana Red said:

Also note in the recipe that the addition of the hop extract is not mentioned in the process. Probably goes in at the standard 60min to go, mark during the "second" boil.
Never used hop extract before. So, just assuming that timing.

Click to expand...

Ugh, sorry I forgot to mention that in the recipe. It goes in at the start of the boil. I was worried about under bittering the beer, so I put all of it in right at the start, all 50 ml (I brewed this originally as a 20 gallon batch).

So looking at the yeast requirements for this thing. Mr. Malty is calling for 2 packs in a 3.72 starter. Seeing that we want this beer to have a high FG would 4 packs in a 3 liter starter seem overkill? 1.169 to 1.054 is 64% attenuation so pretty low. I know being high alcohol will require more yeast but we're talking double the required yeast. Sorry if I'm way out of line here I've never come close to brewing anything this big.

gotbags-10 said:

So looking at the yeast requirements for this thing. Mr. Malty is calling for 2 packs in a 3.72 starter. Seeing that we want this beer to have a high FG would 4 packs in a 3 liter starter seem overkill? 1.169 to 1.054 is 64% attenuation so pretty low. I know being high alcohol will require more yeast but we're talking double the required yeast. Sorry if I'm way out of line here I've never come close to brewing anything this big.

Click to expand...

4 packs in a 3L starter is what I wrote in the BYO recipe, so you should be fine provided your yeast isn't old. I was overly concerned with under attenuation, which didn't turn out to be an issue, and probably pitched a little higher than I needed.

conpewter said:

I'll be trying this... but may have to wait a little while!

Click to expand...

Be sure to let us know. I too am in the pre-planning stage for this.

I'm your huckleberry

no brew yet, I still have about 5 gallons of the RIS stout that I made before and it goes slow, perhaps this summer

So Barf.. 50ml of the hop extract in your 20G batch... but 18ml listed in the recipe in the article.. for a 5G batch...
That threw me off a bit but I think...

NB has 5ml syringes of "HopShot" which sounds like the same product
Estimate of 10 IBUs/ml in a 5G batch of admittedly lower gravity than this will be...makes the call for 18ml of the stuff about right.

This will be the recipe that makes me finally build a stir-plate.