Cascade Forest

Two days of sunshine and temperatures zooming from 27F - 82F morning to evening and a couple shoots turn into Hop Forest.

This is a third year Cascade. Note the shoot coming out of last year's bine just in front of the dead leaf.

That is explosive growth! Will you thin heavily and/or train it? My centennial just popped up, not quite as vigorous as your pic, but I'm psyched for a full year's growth. You should get some real monsters off that Cascade good luck

NICE! my Cascade Jumbo Rhizome has really responded to this great Willamette valley weather- I have 20 shoots from one rhizome! How many bines do you keep growing?

I run one strand with 2-3 bines, so most of those shoots will get lopped. It will be at least a week, maybe two before I do anything else.

nice growth. << not something you hear everyday.

David, What do you think about keeping the first year hop vine trimmed pretty aggresively to incourage root developement? Not going to get any real useable quantity of product anyway.

TimBrewz said:

NICE! my Cascade Jumbo Rhizome has really responded to this great Willamette valley weather- I have 20 shoots from one rhizome! How many bines do you keep growing?

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If I remember correctly, the recommendation from Freshops is two strings and not more then three bines per string. I'm a first-year grower myself so I'm really not sure.

So David, Won't running 2 or 3 shoots on one cord have them competeing for sunlight? i got the idea to grow one bine per cord...

I would think that first year you want as much leaves as possible, to help root growth. Next year start strimming, as you will be expecting flowers to grow, and want to focus the root's energy into the couple of bines you didnt' trim.

I can see growing two lines with 3 bines each after first year.

Is it strange that my first year rhizomes have only sprouted one shoot per plant? Only one of my plants has 2 shoots.

You want to run several bines: first, because one might die and second, the growth really isn't dense enough to block out the sun, so you'll get more hops that way.

On the other hand, too many bines will exceed the capacity of the root system and your yield will go down. Commercial growers run as many as eight bines from each plant, but they also use drip irrigation and intense fertilization.

One sprout isn't unusual, but don't be surprised to see more in a few weeks. It's to the plant's advantage to put all available energy into one shoot at the start. When that shoot is providing energy to the root, more shoots can be budded.

david_42 said:

You want to run several bines: first, because one might die and second, the growth really isn't dense enough to block out the sun, so you'll get more hops that way.

On the other hand, too many bines will exceed the capacity of the root system and your yield will go down. Commercial growers run as many as eight bines from each plant, but they also use drip irrigation and intense fertilization.

One sprout isn't unusual, but don't be surprised to see more in a few weeks. It's to the plant's advantage to put all available energy into one shoot at the start. When that shoot is providing energy to the root, more shoots can be budded.

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You're so wise.....like a miniature bhudda covered in hair

david_42 said:

Two days of sunshine and temperatures zooming from 27F - 82F morning to evening and a couple shoots turn into Hop Forest.

This is a third year Cascade. Note the shoot coming out of last year's bine just in front of the dead leaf.

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Since these things grow so fast, got any updated pics we could see?

And thanks for the tips about multiple bines/photosynthesis to support root growth/all that interesting stuff. Trying to learn as much as I can before these babies need botanical TLC.

Oddly enough, David, my third season Cascades look exactly like what you've pictured, complete with bine runners and all.
Seems to me that the 3rd year really makes for a large plant. I can't wait to see how it develops over the season.

You're so wise.....like a miniature bhudda covered in hair

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I wish, I lost the hair in High School!

Sean said:

nice growth. << not something you hear everyday.

David, What do you think about keeping the first year hop vine trimmed pretty aggresively to incourage root developement? Not going to get any real useable quantity of product anyway.

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I've never understood this theory. Root development should be limited by the photosynthetic activity of the bines. The roots primarily are for nutrient uptake, but the "food" for the plant comes from the sunlight (conversion to sugar). By aggressively cutting off the sugar-producing part of the plant, you HAVE to be limiting the amount of root growth! This would be the same as putting the plant in a nutrient-POOR soil. The plant would be stunted, susceptible to disease, and possibly not survive the first year at all.

7Enigma said:

I've never understood this theory. Root development should be limited by the photosynthetic activity of the bines. The roots primarily are for nutrient uptake, but the "food" for the plant comes from the sunlight (conversion to sugar). By aggressively cutting off the sugar-producing part of the plant, you HAVE to be limiting the amount of root growth! This would be the same as putting the plant in a nutrient-POOR soil. The plant would be stunted, susceptible to disease, and possibly not survive the first year at all.

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As I understand it, when planting a tree, it is advisable to plant in the fall. The energy of the plant is used to develope the root structure. I know this works. I have dug up and moved trees, that have only been in the ground for the winter, and the roots have developed considerably. I am not sure how it works, but it does.

I also know that if you over feed a plant in poor soil with soluble fertilizer, the leaves, and stem will develop, but it will not become well established in the ground.

SO.. It would seem that good soil, and a well trimmed plant would optimize root development. I am not talking about striping every leaf off the vine. just keeping it well pruned for the first year.

Sean said:

As I understand it, when planting a tree, it is advisable to plant in the fall. The energy of the plant is used to develope the root structure. I know this works. I have dug up and moved trees, that have only been in the ground for the winter, and the roots have developed considerably. I am not sure how it works, but it does.

I also know that if you over feed a plant in poor soil with soluble fertilizer, the leaves, and stem will develop, but it will not become well established in the ground.

SO.. It would seem that good soil, and a well trimmed plant would optimize root development. I am not talking about striping every leaf off the vine. just keeping it well pruned for the first year.

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I dunno, I'd be willing to bet the change of temperature has as much to do as anything else. Cooler temps, traditionally (depending on location) higher humidity, will both help any plant regardless of the age as it prevents stress and water loss. Also I believe that for trees (and probably most other plants) the root system continues to develop while the tree is "dormant" throughout the winter. This is why many winterizer fertilizers for grass/ornametals tend to have a higher phosphate content than normal ferts (for root development).

If the plant gets the nutrients in large amounts in a concentrated area, your completely right. Google hydroponics.

But I don't see how those lend any credence to keeping the plant well pruned?

Sean said:

nice growth. << not something you hear everyday.

David, What do you think about keeping the first year hop vine trimmed pretty aggresively to incourage root developement? Not going to get any real useable quantity of product anyway.

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I'm not sure where that's coming from. Could you point us to where you got this information? Most of what I've heard/read says first year hops should be pretty much left alone while the plant develops its root structure as you won't get many bines the first year anyway. I have to believe that the best way to promote growth both above and below the surface of the soil is to simply have as healthy a plant as possible. As 7Enigma suggested, I would think that aggressive pruning, especially the first year, would actually stunt root growth as more energies are diverted to other areas.

Most plants are balanced, root to foliage. Damage the roots, and corresponding foliage dies.

This would seem to indicate that as much foliar growth as possible (untrimmed) would make for the most root developement.

cheezydemon said:

Most plants are balanced, root to foliage. Damage the roots, and corresponding foliage dies.

This would seem to indicate that as much foliar growth as possible (untrimmed) would make for the most root developement.

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Yup, traditionally how bonsai are grown (limiting and pruning of the root ball prevents the growth of the foliage, creating the dwarf appearance). Nice for bonsai, not so much for hop yield.

Don't trim the bines back the first two years. The rhizome has very little energy to spare and cutting back can cripple it. Let the bines grow out until 2-3 of them are a couple feet long. Train those and cut the rest. Keep new shoots trimmed.

The Cascades is three years old. Once you have an established plant, cutting the early bines can make for stronger growth and better pest control. I mainly focus on keeping the bines from spreading too much. The Fuggle is pushing shoots over an area four feet across. I'll probably have to do some root trimming next year.

My second year plants are nearly the size of the one pictured. There are currently almost too many shoots to count. Once the biggest ones get a few feet long I intend to train 6 bines onto 2 different strings and start trimming the rest of the shoots.

The first year I trained about 6 shoots and didn't have many more that needed to be trimmed. This year I can see I will be trimming dozens. Also based on how the bines grew last year it appears that due to the leaf spacing it takes about 3 bines to fully fill out the string, otherwise you would have fairly sparse coverage of leaves on the string, which is obviously less than ideal.

Based on how aggressive the hops are currently sprouting I hoping for a good harvest this fall. Cascades, Chinook, Centennial and Willamette. The Chinook is the farthest along and the Willamette is behind but all look healthy. :rockin:

Craig