The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

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aygov said:
You obviously aren't a fan of the NBA or the NFL then...
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So a while ago I was thinking about the whole NBA thing, and how much people flop to draw a charge, and yet we (by we, i mean the american sports watching population) don't seem to hold that against them as much as soccer players diving.

The one difference I came up with is that flopping in basketball is more of a risk/reward proposition. You flop and get the call, great. You flop and don't get it, you're getting dunked on. Meanwhile, many dives in soccer come in situations where the guy has either lost the ball or is clearly about to.
 
Joker said:
Cooper and Boyd turn and look and don't even move toward the ball.
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That may be due to instruction from their managers. They are both target men and are expected to be at full stamina when the appropriate time comes. If a target man runs down every ball then they will be winded by the time that perfect pass comes and may reduce their percentage of success.

Running their faces off and chasing down 50/50 balls isn't really their job. Leave that to the wingers and middies.

Plus, when you look at the stature of Cooper and Boyd compared to wingers and middie, they seem pretty behemoth.



EDIT:

Cooper -- 6'3", wiiiiide stature
Boyd -- 6'1", built like a line-backer
Perlaza -- 5'10", built like a sprinter
 
Very good point Reno. In watching them it seems to me they are more worried about wrestling with the defender guarding them rather than making space to be available. Although all this probably stems from the fact that I am frustrated about our lack of goals and of course wins.
 
Joker said:
Very good point Reno. In watching them it seems to me they are more worried about wrestling with the defender guarding them rather than making space to be available.
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Indeed they are, especially since they're almost always guarded by the best center back. Their tactics usually involve receiving the ball with their backs to the goal and using their size to power themselves to a shot-worthy position.

Joker said:
Although all this probably stems from the fact that I am frustrated about our lack of goals and of course wins.
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i_hug_that_feel.png
 
BrewKnurd said:
The one difference I came up with is that flopping in basketball is more of a risk/reward proposition. You flop and get the call, great. You flop and don't get it, you're getting dunked on. Meanwhile, many dives in soccer come in situations where the guy has either lost the ball or is clearly about to.
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I think it comes down to how much you have to sell it in soccer. What's more noticeable? A guy who goes down and then gets right back up, or a guy who goes down clutching some appendage in agony as if he has been shot? In the NBA you can flop for a foul and get right back up with a wry smile on your face. It seems to be in soccer that if you're not rolling around on the ground it probably wasn't a foul...
 
aygov said:
I think it comes down to how much you have to sell it in soccer. What's more noticeable? A guy who goes down and then gets right back up, or a guy who goes down clutching some appendage in agony as if he has been shot? In the NBA you can flop for a foul and get right back up with a wry smile on your face. It seems to be in soccer that if you're not rolling around on the ground it probably wasn't a foul...
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Well, that's certainly true. The after the fact theatrics in soccer are unparalleled. I was just thinking in terms of the actual dive, but you raise an excellent point.
 
BrewKnurd said:
Well, that's certainly true. The after the fact theatrics in soccer are unparalleled. I was just thinking in terms of the actual dive, but you raise an excellent point.
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I would agree with the fact that a lot of the time simulation occurs in soccer when you've had the ball taken off you. In the NBA there seems to be a bit more karma in the game for people that fall down too easily. If a striker dives in a game they really aren't leaving a whole in defense or anything like that so you're free to get back up and try again.
 
Wow I like the rhetoric going on in here.

You should also key in how the different sports determine a foul.

In basketball a slap to the arm during a shot earns free-throws, almost guaranteed points but a small fraction of the overall score.

In soccer, two players can be knocking the hell out of each other as long as their arms are at their sides and they are parallel and thus no hits from behind. But if an attacker feels an arm come out or gets nudged a bit from behind, taking a chance on a dive can result in excellent fk placement or even a pk, which can completely change the outcome of a game. And if it doesn't work you only have one player unable to defend but doesn't matter because the attack starts so far away from the goal. Worst case scenario you get booked for simulation but the potential outcome is worth the risk, similar to a defender getting book for intentionally fouling a player in open space that could start a dangerous attack.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
England 1-0 Ukraine

Way to go, you limey bastards! :D
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Not pleased with it though. We needed a draw, they needed a win, and both sides played accordingly. England were lucky to get a soft goal.

More importantly, it has been proved yet AGAIN that they need to bring in better technology. Ukraine had a good goal disallowed that crossed the line. Even having an official on the goal line with the sole purpose of calling that judgement got it WRONG!!! It was sickening. I was almost cheering on Ukraine to at least get an equaliser after that. :mad:
 
dwarven_stout said:
Joker, I think I remember you talking up Perlaza before. He's never really done much for me- Portland has other guys that can run all over the field while doing a better job staying onside. I'm just not sure that Boyd + Mwanga is the best solution with our midfield the way it is.



What game did you watch? Most of the "show" was after the goal.
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He wasn't even watching the ball after the contact. What game did YOU watch??
 
I don't go on the NFL threads and complain about the way that sport has 12 minutes of action spread over an afternoon. Just sayin. ;)
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
I don't go on the NFL threads and complain about the way that sport has 12 minutes of action spread over an afternoon. Just sayin. ;)
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Or even worse, baseball.
 
HoppyDaze said:
He wasn't even watching the ball after the contact. What game did YOU watch??
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I just went back and watched that segment of the replay over and over.

Technically everybody is correct. Perkins did throw his arms up after contact and yelled (not at the ref but while he was tracking the ball) but as he did so he shuffled to the post using proper goal keeper footwork in tight situations. But in all honesty, to give HoppyDaze some credit, if his hands weren't thrown up and instead in ready position he could have easily stopped that considering his skill level.

But you also can't put all the blame on Perkins. The rest of the Portland players didn't play to the whistle either.
 
Also, now that Group Stage is over and knockouts begin, it's time for predictions!

Czech Rep v Portugal

Spain v France



Germany v Greece

England v Italy




My Predictions:

- Portugal beat Czech Republic 3-1
- Spain beat France 2-0
- Germany beat Greece 3-0
- England beat Italy 2-1


If I were to go on in my predictions:

- Portugal beat Spain 2-1
- Germany and England go to PKs and Germany wins
- Germany beat Portugal 2-0 for the win
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Wow I like the rhetoric going on in here.

You should also key in how the different sports determine a foul.

In basketball a slap to the arm during a shot earns free-throws, almost guaranteed points but a small fraction of the overall score.

In soccer, two players can be knocking the hell out of each other as long as their arms are at their sides and they are parallel and thus no hits from behind. But if an attacker feels an arm come out or gets nudged a bit from behind, taking a chance on a dive can result in excellent fk placement or even a pk, which can completely change the outcome of a game. And if it doesn't work you only have one player unable to defend but doesn't matter because the attack starts so far away from the goal. Worst case scenario you get booked for simulation but the potential outcome is worth the risk, similar to a defender getting book for intentionally fouling a player in open space that could start a dangerous attack.
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I would agree with that. I also think the stakes are a lot higher than in other sports as you said. Take a player already on a yellow card. All it takes is one dive from someone he's defending and he's off to the showers. The same goes for the penalty area. I think we'd see a lot more manipulation of the refs in the NFL if they had an area of the field where, if the defending team committed an offense, you were automatically awarded the ball at the 5 yard line.

That being said even with the blemish that is diving I still love the sport. There are so many other facets of the sport that outshine it...
 
The Galaxy are starting to look like themselves again! FINALLY!!!

I caught myself (drunkenly) thinking to myself several times during the second half, "Oh, there you are. I haven't seen you guys in a while."

And by "you guys" I mean a collective of incredibly talented gentlemen who actually show that they know how to play the sport they are being paid a lot of money to play.
 
I got quite drunk last night! We were celebrating me finally finding employment with our typical Celebration Steak Night (BBQ tri-tip and corn in-husk, and potato salad loaded with mustard and pepper) and my roommate had been squirreling away a 750ml bottle of a maple bourbon RIS from a small brewery called Hanger 24 where his BIL works.

So it was right around the time that LA was down by two that we were about to finishing cooking and I was pretty toasty. I had conceded the fact that this was a loss because a) I was too happy and drunk and to care, and b) LA's form has been ass as of late and they were playing at altitude at Rio Tinto.

What an nice little cherry on top of the awesomeness-sundae that was my day to have Landy Cakes and The Highlander show up!

And did anybody watch the Houston v Toronto match? I just finished watching the replay to kill time before the Euro match.... sh*t was nuts. TFC is looking good under the management of Mariner but Will "The Dancing Bear" Bruin was all business. An hour before matches started I actually made a gut decision to make him my captain in the Fantasy Manager and it paaaaaaid off.

And finally, how about Patrick Ianni's wundergoal?

 
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I was at the sounders kc game last night. Horrible second half officiating but the Ianni goal was amazing to watch in person. Great first MLS match to be at.
 
Punity said:
I was at the sounders kc game last night. Horrible second half officiating but the Ianni goal was amazing to watch in person. Great first MLS match to be at.
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Wow, good choice as your first!
 
Yea i was lucky it wasnt the montreal 4-1 asskicking they received in their last game.
 
Yeah that would have been a bummer.

My first live match was 2010 LA hosting RBNY. SWMBO and I stood/sang/chanted/drank with Angel City Brigade (no sitting allowed, dag nabbit!) and even though LA lost 0-2 it was the greatest sporting experience either of us had ever had. Hands down.



Also, fun fact: Ben Olsen is now the All-Star manager since Nowak got sacked.
 
That was an amazing goal.

I was thinking about the "everyone" in other sports bashing the flop/dive and it reminded me of all the time you hear people complain about the score in soccer being so low and that makes it not worth watching. My father was saying this exact thing the other day about lack of scoring however once I reminded him hockey is the same, baseball typically low scoring, and those amazing football games that are 21-14 congrats one team scored 3 times the other 2. Woo hooo yeah crazy amounts of scoring. :ban:;)
 
Joker said:
That was an amazing goal.

I was thinking about the "everyone" in other sports bashing the flop/dive and it reminded me of all the time you hear people complain about the score in soccer being so low and that makes it not worth watching. My father was saying this exact thing the other day about lack of scoring however once I reminded him hockey is the same, baseball typically low scoring, and those amazing football games that are 21-14 congrats one team scored 3 times the other 2. Woo hooo yeah crazy amounts of scoring. :ban:;)
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Exactly... my dad complained about it and I said, well would it be different if they made a goal worth 7 pts? He got the point and tbf to him he is actually following soccer a lot more. He'll watch my beloved Arsenal when they are on TV. He still hates the idea of a draw, but oh well...
 
Yup, all we need to do to get Americans interested is make goals in MLS worth 7 points. Seems legit :D

And speaking of those who don't like soccer, what about UFC? (The UFC commish publicly talked sh*t about soccer) When there is no knockout or submission isn't it based on judges decision? Yeah, it's definitely more of a sport if the winner is determined the same way as synchronized swimming and gymnastic floor routines.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
Yup, all we need to do to get Americans interested is make goals in MLS worth 7 points. Seems legit :D

And speaking of those who don't like soccer, what about UFC? (The UFC commish publicly talked sh*t about soccer) When there is no knockout or submission isn't it based on judges decision? Yeah, it's definitely more of a sport if the winner is determined the same way as synchronized swimming and gymnastic floor routines.
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As we can see by the latest boxing scandal the judges are always impartial...
 

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