DmentD
Well-Known Member
Time for a progress report, I s'pose.
The EC-1118 starter, with 6 hour spin/additions failed spectacularly. Not a bubble or gravity shift 72 hours after pitching... just a nice, growing layer of yeast on the bottom of the carboy (and yes, I did give the whole thing a whirl once or twice daily with a drill-mounted stir paddle... a de-gasser to be specific).
I thought to myself "Self, you're read endlessly about the perils of making a starter with dry yeast, that they are dried at the peak of nutrition and that making a starter actually sets them back." So, I took a trip to the LHBS to seek advice, and a vial of liquid yeast to make a starter with.
Talking with my usual guru there, he advised that if making a starter, especially in this case, to definitely start with liquid yeast. He also suggested building a 2L starter in one go, with a gravity of ~1.040, no staggered additions, and spinning it for 24 hours before pitching, using nutrients and energizer as per the original technique. Additionally, he mentioned that most wine and mead yeasts will do well in environments as acidic as 3pH, and even as low as 2.5pH but with some difficulty. Incidentally, the lemonade must is 2.75pH (I have a lovely pH meter... might as well get some use out of it).
I bought a vial of White Labs Champagne Yeast (WLP715), and as an afterthought, two more packets of EC-1118 dry yeast... I figured that if the starter from the liquid yeast failed, this batch was going to become a grand experiment, and that I was going to write it off anyway and start anew, so I may as well tinker extensively with it.
Built my starter from 2Q water and 1 can of MinuteMaid lemonade concentrate -- which, by the way, was a perfect 1.042 gravity without adding any sugar. Added the liquid yeast with ¼ TSP each nutrient and energizer, and spun it for 24 hours. Nuked the must with Campden tablets when I built the starter to give it 24 hours to build a clean slate. The starter turned a lovely creamy color with a tiny bit of foam on top by the time it finished. Pitched it, aerated the hell out of the must, and waited anxiously.
Nothing.
72 hours, and two daily stirs later, nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Just a thicker layer of yeast on the bottom of the carboy.
*sigh*
Again, I turned to my best brew partner "Self, I guess we go all mad scientist and try some unusual things now." I rehydrated the 2 packets of EC-1118 yeast in 100°F water for 15 minutes and pitched it, thinking that it would never work without a starter, but also figuring that if dry yeast works better when pitched without being made into a starter, this was its best chance.
3 hours later, I was getting bubbles in my airlock. Slowly, but surely. All the old, dead yeast that had settled to the bottom, but got stirred up when I added the new yeast, hadn't settled again... they became a krausen. I kid you not, there is a squishy, fluffy layer of off-white/pale-yellow krausen floating on top. After every daily stir, it comes right back with almost nothing on the bottom of the carboy. 36 hours later, the gravity had dropped ~10 points, at 60 hours the airlock is bubbling ferociously -- 1 bubble every second.
Thinking this was a fluke, I decided to build another batch from scratch, and try the liquid yeast starter method again. Described what happened to my guy at the LHBS, and he was baffled, but insanely curious to know how this new batch went. Bought another vial of WLP715 and 2 more packets of EC-1118 (just in case).
Built another starter with 2Q water, 1 can of lemonade and ¼ TSP each nutrient and energizer. Built the must with 9 cans of lemonade, 5 LBS of sugar, and added water to make 5 GAL (incidentally, that was a spot-on 1.080 gravity). Campden in the must for 24 hours before pitching, 4 TSP each nutrient and energizer, and pitched.
At this time, 36 hours later, there is zero activity. I'm giving this batch 5 days -- 120 hours -- to show me some sign of life, either by airlock activity, a krausen, or a gravity drop. After 5 days, there should be little to no chance that any yeasts are still alive, and for the sake of being completely sure there are no survivors, I'm going to nuke the site from orbit with Campden and wait another 24 hours before pitching rehydrated-only EC-1118 to see if I can re-create the magic from the first batch.
If that works, that means the process just got a whole lot simpler, and much more reliable.
The EC-1118 starter, with 6 hour spin/additions failed spectacularly. Not a bubble or gravity shift 72 hours after pitching... just a nice, growing layer of yeast on the bottom of the carboy (and yes, I did give the whole thing a whirl once or twice daily with a drill-mounted stir paddle... a de-gasser to be specific).
I thought to myself "Self, you're read endlessly about the perils of making a starter with dry yeast, that they are dried at the peak of nutrition and that making a starter actually sets them back." So, I took a trip to the LHBS to seek advice, and a vial of liquid yeast to make a starter with.
Talking with my usual guru there, he advised that if making a starter, especially in this case, to definitely start with liquid yeast. He also suggested building a 2L starter in one go, with a gravity of ~1.040, no staggered additions, and spinning it for 24 hours before pitching, using nutrients and energizer as per the original technique. Additionally, he mentioned that most wine and mead yeasts will do well in environments as acidic as 3pH, and even as low as 2.5pH but with some difficulty. Incidentally, the lemonade must is 2.75pH (I have a lovely pH meter... might as well get some use out of it).
I bought a vial of White Labs Champagne Yeast (WLP715), and as an afterthought, two more packets of EC-1118 dry yeast... I figured that if the starter from the liquid yeast failed, this batch was going to become a grand experiment, and that I was going to write it off anyway and start anew, so I may as well tinker extensively with it.
Built my starter from 2Q water and 1 can of MinuteMaid lemonade concentrate -- which, by the way, was a perfect 1.042 gravity without adding any sugar. Added the liquid yeast with ¼ TSP each nutrient and energizer, and spun it for 24 hours. Nuked the must with Campden tablets when I built the starter to give it 24 hours to build a clean slate. The starter turned a lovely creamy color with a tiny bit of foam on top by the time it finished. Pitched it, aerated the hell out of the must, and waited anxiously.
Nothing.
72 hours, and two daily stirs later, nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. Just a thicker layer of yeast on the bottom of the carboy.
*sigh*
Again, I turned to my best brew partner "Self, I guess we go all mad scientist and try some unusual things now." I rehydrated the 2 packets of EC-1118 yeast in 100°F water for 15 minutes and pitched it, thinking that it would never work without a starter, but also figuring that if dry yeast works better when pitched without being made into a starter, this was its best chance.
3 hours later, I was getting bubbles in my airlock. Slowly, but surely. All the old, dead yeast that had settled to the bottom, but got stirred up when I added the new yeast, hadn't settled again... they became a krausen. I kid you not, there is a squishy, fluffy layer of off-white/pale-yellow krausen floating on top. After every daily stir, it comes right back with almost nothing on the bottom of the carboy. 36 hours later, the gravity had dropped ~10 points, at 60 hours the airlock is bubbling ferociously -- 1 bubble every second.
Thinking this was a fluke, I decided to build another batch from scratch, and try the liquid yeast starter method again. Described what happened to my guy at the LHBS, and he was baffled, but insanely curious to know how this new batch went. Bought another vial of WLP715 and 2 more packets of EC-1118 (just in case).
Built another starter with 2Q water, 1 can of lemonade and ¼ TSP each nutrient and energizer. Built the must with 9 cans of lemonade, 5 LBS of sugar, and added water to make 5 GAL (incidentally, that was a spot-on 1.080 gravity). Campden in the must for 24 hours before pitching, 4 TSP each nutrient and energizer, and pitched.
At this time, 36 hours later, there is zero activity. I'm giving this batch 5 days -- 120 hours -- to show me some sign of life, either by airlock activity, a krausen, or a gravity drop. After 5 days, there should be little to no chance that any yeasts are still alive, and for the sake of being completely sure there are no survivors, I'm going to nuke the site from orbit with Campden and wait another 24 hours before pitching rehydrated-only EC-1118 to see if I can re-create the magic from the first batch.
If that works, that means the process just got a whole lot simpler, and much more reliable.