The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

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Reno_eNVy said:
I don't know man. They seem to get crazy good when they play Cascadia rivals
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At home yea they get up. In our house I say no no.
 
Obliviousbrew said:
From fifa website...

http://www.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63869/index.html

it´s clearer in spanish

http://es.fifa.com/classicfootball/players/player=63869/index.html
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Since I don't read Spanish it's not exactly clearer for me.

The only reference to the national treasure status I found in the English link was the following:

J.B. Pinheiro, the Brazilian ambassador to the United Nations, was quoted as saying: "Pele played football for 22 years, and in that time he did more to promote world friendship and fraternity than any other ambassador anywhere". And who could contradict him? In warring Nigeria a ceasefire was declared when Pele played in Lagos in 1969. The President of Brazil declared him a "national treasure" to thwart any potential transfer to a European club. And in the port city of Santos, 19 November is forever 'Pele Day', to celebrate the anniversary of his 1,000th goal.
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I quoted the whole paragraph so it doesn't look like I chopped a sentence out of context. The bolded bit is the relevant part and it doesn't say what year it happened.

I read the whole thing and either you're seeing something I'm not or you're misreading it.
 
Pappers_ said:
I know, it would have been great to go up a point or three over the damned Red Bull before the match on Saturday. On the other hand, this game means a lot now - the number two spot in the east. Haven't decided yet whether I'm watching at home or going to a watch party at a local pub.
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Agreed. It would have been nice to get a little breathing room, but I guess this is going to make Saturday's game all that much more dramatic...
 
I read it in three languages dude the only three I can read... it is clear in two... it sucks that in english is not very well redacted, I doubt that english it is the original language of that particular post. I´ve seen data saying that he got it after world cup 62, I ´ve seen a 1967 a bunch of 1969 and even one that said the he was declared in 1958 for me is not clear, I tend to accept as you that that the most results I see around it is the truth, you have a lot of places that say 1961 its allrigth truth is that HE HAD the chances to play in Europe, the "national treasure" status didn´t stop him from playing for Cosmos, and how are you going -as a goverment- prevent that a person doesn´t emigrate specially when he is travelling all the time??? The national treasure thing doesn´t sound more than a populist manuever of a goverment more than an actual prohibition of transfer if the player wanted it... Pele asn´t forced to play for Brazil or in Brazil he choose to. And he did admit it.....
 
I really want to stop discussing this...is not smart to discuss this kind of things, and certantly I´m not a troll... just hot headed... I really thing we shoul be discussing next match and not things that are a dead end actually. Pele statics and history are not very reliable especially in scored goals, this issue, the corauge of not taking the step to Europe are widely discuss between spanish, portuguese speaking fans and something that you can or can´t agree but this is not a comment out of the blue. Coming from a very diferent place I see it different... that´s it we propably wont agree never, but I do respect your comments about it I just don´t share them and is not going to get deeper than that, I don´t troll but stupids say stupid things as I´ve told in this thread. At least if someone is going to call me or my comments stupid he willl have to giveme the rigth to behave like one.

Anyway the important thing is:

There is anyof you guys going to watch Madrid-Barcelona this weekend? and what matchfrom your league will you recommend me to watch this weekend?
 
Obliviousbrew said:
I read it in three languages dude the only three I can read... it is clear in two... it sucks that in english is not very well redacted, I doubt that english it is the original language of that particular post. I´ve seen data saying that he got it after world cup 62, I ´ve seen a 1967 a bunch of 1969 and even one that said the he was declared in 1958 for me is not clear, I tend to accept as you that that the most results I see around it is the truth, you have a lot of places that say 1961 its allrigth truth is that HE HAD the chances to play in Europe, the "national treasure" status didn´t stop him from playing for Cosmos, and how are you going -as a goverment- prevent that a person doesn´t emigrate specially when he is travelling all the time??? The national treasure thing doesn´t sound more than a populist manuever of a goverment more than an actual prohibition of transfer if the player wanted it... Pele asn´t forced to play for Brazil or in Brazil he choose to. And he did admit it.....
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I guess it is a pretty muddy point.

That aside if you think him not playing in Europe diminishes his greatness then so be it. I don't have a dog in the "Best player ever!" fight because I think declaring anything the best is usually impossible. I mean how can you compare Pele to anyone in the modern game considering football is so much different then it was back then. It's all up for interpretation with heaps of opinion thrown in. There have been many great players but trying to say that one of them is unequivocally the best ever is ridiculous.
 
"And he did admit it....."

And your point is about his manhood? Kid, no matter how you serve this up, it is a silly argument to make. You've implied Pele refused to play in europe cause he was affraid of european players? How would you explain his success in world cup play then? Didn't he play against them then?

Also wiki has him declared as a national treasure in 1961 which would make sense as he was entering his prime... He basically played his career for Santos 18 of his 20 years. This is probably what Messi is going to do as well with his club. I think you may confuse a sense of loyalty with a lack of manhood, which again, how old are you?

The other factor that is more plausable than lack of manhood? Money. I'm sure if enough money was offered, he would have been there, as the last two years with the Cosmos were simply too big of a paycheck to turn down. What was the cost of living in Brazil compared to any EU country at the time? Do you think they were the same or waaay a part? Did a dollar go farther in Brazil than in a EU country (pick any one)? Why do you think Beckham stayed in America instead of signing with that French team? Something about a 36% tax bracket in the states vs. a 75% bracket coming to France?

While again the childish notion that a lack of manhood kept Pele from Europe, it's highly unlikely. It may be just fluffing your chest feathers to feel better about something else.
 
totally agree on that Pele or Maradona or Messi who is the greatest it´s an impossible comparision different moments rules and way to tacticly play the game. I do enjoy Pele I just think Garrincha it´s better but hey that´s only my opinion and that´s it.
 
lgilmore said:
"And he did admit it....."

And your point is about his manhood? Kid, no matter how you serve this up, it is a silly argument to make. You've implied Pele refused to play in europe cause he was affraid of european players? How would you explain his success in world cup play then? Didn't he play against them then?
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Dude If you care to read above post and not just the first thing maybe you´ll have different questions, and again it was wrong from me to pull a "man card" on him... again I tough this been a soccer thread it was a little more permisive and found out that is not... I just think diffrently and that´s it. Accept it, I really don´t care if you agree or not. He was a great pleayer in a great team but I don´t think we was the best in the three national teams that got the world cup.
 
Dude? really "Dude?" ;) c'mon am I debating with someone younger than my shoes here? ;)


"again I tough this been a soccer thread it was a little more permisive and found out that is not"

Because those here didn't embrace your theory on why Pele didn't play in Europe? No one embraced it because it was nonsense and to believe it was nonsense too.

Look Pele scored in 77 goals in the 92 international matches played, Messi so far has 28 in 73 matches. So he has 19 internationals to score 49 goals to catch up and match Pele. I think Messi is probably the greatest attacking player in this era. But just from a production basis, he has a very difficult task to catch Pele. So I guess it's hard for me to not think your comments were silly?
 
lgilmore said:
Look Pele scored in 77 goals in the 92 international matches played, Messi so far has 28 in 73 matches. So he has 19 internationals to score 49 goals to catch up and match Pele.
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kane%20clapping.gif
 
Pappers_ said:
I know, it would have been great to go up a point or three over the damned Red Bull before the match on Saturday. On the other hand, this game means a lot now - the number two spot in the east. Haven't decided yet whether I'm watching at home or going to a watch party at a local pub.
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Hmm... MLS Editors aren't liking Chicago's chances. Three of them picked NYRB to win and two called it a draw.
 
The Pele/Messi stats are very nice, but stats don't really have as much relevance in s#ccer as in other sports. They are always fun to look at, but don't tell half the story.
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
The Pele/Messi stats are very nice, but stats don't really have as much relevance in s#ccer as in other sports. They are always fun to look at, but don't tell half the story.
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This.

Reno_eNVy said:
Hmm... MLS Editors aren't liking Chicago's chances. Three of them picked NYRB to win and two called it a draw.
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As a fire fan I don't like them either. We've completely lost the momentum and to go Red Bull Arena and hope to get it back and get a result... it might be a tough ask.
 
Obliviousbrew said:
There is anyof you guys going to watch Madrid-Barcelona this weekend? and what matchfrom your league will you recommend me to watch this weekend?
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From MLS I will be watching the Fire v. Red Bulls.

From the EPL I'll be watching West Ham v. Arsenal.
 
Pappers_ said:
Woooohooooo! Take that, so-called experts!

I didn't actually get to watch the game :( but will be watching it tonight :tank:
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haha!!! EXPERTS!!! I don't know what the American "Experts" are like, but I'm guessing they are probably the same as in the UK.....Yes, they are ex pros and managers, but when it comes to predicting a game, they should look back on their own careers more often, and try to remember just how much factors like team spirit and individual flashes of brilliance or crappidity can completely turn a match on it's head. ;)
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
haha!!! EXPERTS!!! I don't know what the American "Experts" are like, but I'm guessing they are probably the same as in the UK.....Yes, they are ex pros and managers, but when it comes to predicting a game, they should look back on their own careers more often, and try to remember just how much factors like team spirit and individual flashes of brilliance or crappidity can completely turn a match on it's head. ;)
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A lot of the people on the website are analysts and editors first. Most ex pros are commentators in MLS. Or become mediocre ESPN analysts (talking to you, Lalas ;))
 
Reno_eNVy said:
A lot of the people on the website are analysts and editors first. Most ex pros are commentators in MLS. Or become mediocre ESPN analysts (talking to you, Lalas ;))
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Sounds like a problem that could be improved upon then. Although, in all honesty, the pundits are always gonna say stupid crap no matter what their background. :)

I prefer to listen to the fans, and filter out the 99.9% that are talking crap. There will always be one that makes perfect sense and knock the socks off the experts.
 
That was the first time in a long while that Portland played Seattle like a team with the record they have. In the past Portland played so strong that had they put half as much effort into other league games as they did Seattle, they'd be in the playoff hunt. Yesterday saw them play like they play against other teams, not so much like they play Seattle. Might have been Seattle smacked them back pretty early when Portland got a little rough. I don't think Tiffert was there last time and he certainly took exception in getting slammed into the ad boards. He purposely took a yellow on his foul a little bit later.

And while both teams yelled at the ref. It wasn't Salazar who has centered so many of the uglier games between the two teams.

Portland kinda shut down on this one. They are due for a housecleaning for next season.
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
There will always be one that makes perfect sense and knock the socks off the experts.
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This is true. But that applies to other departments too.

For example.... let's talk about Arlo White. In my mind he is, without a doubt, the best individual working within MLS. Consummate professional, perfect voice for play-by-play, gets pumped when great soccer is being played (soooo much better than some of the deadpans you hear on local broadcasts), never takes sides, and at times really impresses me with his clever use of the English language. He's almost like the David Attenborough of soccer commentators.

I guess that's why he got the bump to NBC and NBCSN.
 
Arlo was class all the way. I'm sad we had to share him all the way. Although he does do a sounders centered radio segment here at home so I guess it makes up for tin
 
After the debacle in Seattle, I’m looking forward to Whitecaps v. Timbers in a couple of weeks. I’ve got tickets in the Supporters Section, which is the only way to watch, really. (Other than the fact that if you watch at home you have more options than Budweiser or Budweiser). Kind of a bummer that we have to wait for the FIFA break to play out the end of the season. It’s a nail biter.
Thank you Chivas for being thoroughly awful against us last Wed and then remembering how to play football by Sunday against Dallas. You made our playoff run that much easier. If you can actually beat Dallas in your next match against them, every single member of the squad, reserves and technical staff gets added to my christmas card list.
 
You should have heard Arlo when he was in Seattle. He put the "home" in "homer". He was great. I used to love his comments about "criminal" fouls on the other side. He is good enough to stick a zinger in here or there to let you know "wink wink nudge nudge" that he works for the home side. And it was great in a match he called last week, mentioning Ozzie Olonso about 4 times of the Seattle Sounders, while two different teams were playing. Even the way he said it, still kinda let us know, he's still a homer for Seattle.
 
Newbie here at HBT.
Long time Arsenal fan.
Just found the "horribly unpopular" soccer thread.
Nothing better than soccer and beer. :)
 
I mentioned not having a MLS side in StL the other day, and this morning I see this: http://nextstl.com/downtown/major-league-soccer-stadium-may-be-part-of-new-union-station-vision

Of course these proposals come and go, and this one hasn't even gotten off the ground, but it sounds like the best investment group we've seen here. And the Rams owner also owns Arsenal...there's a rumor that he may be involved in the Union Station operation, and that could bode well for a stadium in the years to come.
 
jwitt? Ever get to the farmers market in st. Lou? absolutely the best farmers market I've ever seen. $4 16oz bloody marys while you pick up 3-4 bags of produce for $20. Beats the hell out of our tourist trap Pike Place Market in Seattle. My kid's a doctor in Belleville, lives downtown in the lou. We get out there in the summer, when it's cool and never humid. ;) I don't know how you guys live in the midwest. 100 degrees here in eastern washington comes with 10% humidity, not that 95 - 95 stuff you guys get. cheers.
 
lgilmore- yeah, summers here are miserable! The drought brought insanely hot weather, but very little humidity. That weather brought in the best quality local grape harvest in anyone's memory.

The Soulard market is great! It's about a mile from Union Station- a very cool building if you're ever in the tourist mood while in town. I don't make it over as often as I like. My second job is Mon-Fri-Sat at the LHBS in Belleville (across the river and close to the Metro-Link train stop) so if you're ever in the neighborhood... :mug:
 

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