A new wrinkle in the Fly vs Batch debate: FWH

I batch sparge. So if I First Wort Hop, the hops only has about 10 min in contact with the first runnings before I start my boil. If somebody else fly sparges, the FWH has maybe 60 or more minutes in the non-boiling wort.

Is this a disadvantage for batch sparging? Does it matter?

It takes me 30-40 minutes to drain my first runnings, and put both batch sparges through. My FWH go in the kettle before I drain the first runnings, so I am getting at least 40 minutes contact time before it goes on the flame. It usually takes another 20 minutes on the flame to get boiling.

Denny is a proponent of both batch sparging and FWHing. He should have some input.

I have used FWH with batch sparging myself. Contact time during lauter was about 30 min. Heating time is an additional 15-20 min. Bc I mash and lauter inside I cannot start heating until the lauter is done.

Kai

I drain my tun into my kettle and immediately put it on low heat. Then I batch sparge x 2 with little waiting (but lots of stirring), also draining into the kettle.

From opening my ball valve for the first time to full boil is under 30 min.

I suppose I could easily slow this down a bit if I wanted to FWH.

jldc said:

I drain my tun into my kettle and immediately put it on low heat. Then I batch sparge x 2 with little waiting (but lots of stirring), also draining into the kettle.

From opening my ball valve for the first time to full boil is under 30 min.

I suppose I could easily slow this down a bit if I wanted to FWH.

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Do you vourlauf? Also, without waiting for the grainbed to settle after the first batch, do you lose or gain any efficiency? Is the beer considerably cloudier?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I just find this very appealing in terms of cutting down time for brewing. Most of my brewing is done in the evening and this would be a welcome increase in work flow efficiency.

Regards,
Jacob

vourlaufing never takes me more than 5 mins for the grain bed to settle enough to start draining.

I don't have 85% efficiency, but I think that's because I need to tweak my crush.

In my dinky little PM system once I was hooked on FWH I went straight to throwing the hops in the mash tun.

For anything reasonably hoppy from an APA on up the IBU scale I just throw in all my (60) as "FWH" in the mash tun during the acid rest, uisually about an hour before I start heating the tun for the next rest stop.

FWIW my 2.5 gallon takes about 20 minutes to come to a boil on the stove top. FHW is "hoppier" than (60) but getting the hops intothe mash tun really brings out flavor depth I can't get any other way. Bitterness seems to be about the same, but the flavor is improved, dramatically. I suppose it is the low pH inthe tun during the acid rest that helps dissolve the alpha acids.

Mostly I am brewing APA's, I have made 3 IPAs lifetime. Never mind the extract batch. The second was FWH and the third was some in the mashtun and some FWH with the third adition at (1) and then dry hopped. Unless y'all come up with something better in the mean time, I'll repeat the most recent one, it's in my drop down.

Poindexter said:

I suppose it is the low pH inthe tun during the acid rest that helps dissolve the alpha acids.

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Two things wrong with that. Alpha acids are more soluble in an alkaline solution(ref), and as temp rises, pH drops so the wort is more acidic in the higher rests and kettle than the acid rest. The acid rest just acidifies the mash, which then becomes more acidic than that as the temp goes up.

Other than that, I agree FW and mash hopping can not be replicated by late additions, it's very different.

Ack! Phfttt!

jldc said:

Is this a disadvantage for batch sparging? Does it matter?

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My experience is no to both of those. You can debate theory, but that's my experience.

Poindexter said:

getting the hops intothe mash tun really brings out flavor depth I can't get any other way. Bitterness seems to be about the same, but the flavor is improved, dramatically. I suppose it is the low pH inthe tun during the acid rest that helps dissolve the alpha acids.

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Interesting. I did quite a few tests om mash hopping and concluded that in my case it did nothing at all. No one was ever able to identify a mash hopped beer correctly and when it was analyzed it had about 10% of the IBUs that would have been predicted. OTOH, I never do an acid rest.