Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

Sorry my mistake.... I'll remove my asshat now.

jamesjensen1068 said:

Sorry my mistake.... I'll remove my asshat now.

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Would be awesome if Target sold LME, but sadly it was just the juice.

I work at Target, but lucky for me the LHBS is just a couple miles away from work. Pretty easy to pick up some juice and then swing by the shop for the other stuff on the way home.

TriangleIL said:

My Graff came out a wee bit dry, however SWMBO loves it. She says its like Magners. I personally don't like cider much, so I am letting her drink it. In fact, it was brewed for her. I will say it has a nice head, is slightly malty and is not 'bad'. I did cold crash it @ 35 for 5 days, however it didn't clear very well. Even after sitting in the keg for a few days, it still isn't overly clear. However, there is a possibility I need to get more out before all the last remaining sediment is gone.:fro:

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TriangleIL, your recipe looks very similar to what I was going to try. Do you think going up to 8 oz of honey malt would compensate for some of the dryness? Thanks!


RE: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/index84.html#post2154852

jamesjensen1068 said:

I'm the type where I like to drink my beers during the process of making, at bottling time and during the 2 to 3 weeks of bottle conditioning.

Needless to say I've done the same thing with the Graff. After two weeks it's carbinated great.....but I must say I'm underwhelmed by the taste. It's not that its bad...it's just that so far I'm not saying, "Wow...I gotta have another one of those". Should I really expect much more change in taste in the following weeks???

Cheers.

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Ok so I stand corrected. The additional week bottle conditioning and a few extra days in the fridge has made all the difference. The apple flavor is coming thru more and I took your advice about drinking 3 in a row . The more I drink it the better I like it. I gave a sixer to a buddy of mine. His general feeling was that he liked it but felt it could use a slice of orange or lemon.

I think part of the enjoyment of this delicious drink is that you have to remember that it is not a beer or cider, it's a hybrid....and any flavor expectations you have on what it "should" taste like need to be set aside until you brew a batch and try it....not saying that you shouldn't tweek it to suit your taste pallet. I would love to make a batch of this with fresh pressed apple cider. I'll be bring some into work tomorrow to share with co-workers. I've been using the term "Apple Ale" to describe it to others.

For anyone on the fence about brewing a batch...just do it. Will I be brewing another batch...Yes!

Cheers

I know there were posts about using AJ concentrate to prime at bottling time. Can anyone tell me how well this worked and if this added any sweetness and how much to use?

Any problem with Crystal 45 instead of 60 or 120? I have 2 pounds that I"m not using. I have everything else, so I don't want to have to buy more Crystal if I don't want to.

tippetsnapper said:

I used this recipe as a guideline and made a 5 gallon batch with 3 gallons of fresh peach cider (gravity of 1.035) and 2 gallons of wort. I pasteurized the cider for 10 mins at 160, let cool, then racked it onto the wort after the boil. I will add 2.5 pounds of peach puree to the primary after day 3 of fermentation, give it a few more days, then sorbate/sulfite it, then rack to secondary over another 2.5 lbs of puree to back sweeten. Here's what I used:

1/2 lb crystal 10L
1/2 lb crystal 40L - both steeped for 30 mins around 150

1 lb - light DME
3.3 lbs - amber LME
0.5 oz - 5.5% Mt.Hood

30 minute boil, used wort chiller, pitched Wyeast ESB 1968 last night around 1030, bubbling this morning at 7, forgot to get an OG. I plan on kegging after two weeks in the secondary. If additional sweetness is not needed, the second puree addition will be foregone. I'll let you know how it turns out.

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Ok, this turned out absolutely gang busters. I didn't need to backsweeten at all, it finished around 1.016 and just tastes heavenly. I might scale back the hops a hair, but still good as is. If anyone can get their hands on some peach cider, give this a try.

Thanks Brandon!!!

gratefullydeadicated said:

I know there were posts about using AJ concentrate to prime at bottling time. Can anyone tell me how well this worked and if this added any sweetness and how much to use?

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I'd love to know about this as well.

Anybody make this with fresh pressed cider. I got a lock on a local orchard that will sell me as much cider as I want with no preservatives.

Wondering if I should do a batch of Graff or just a straight Cider??

jamesjensen1068 said:

Anybody make this with fresh pressed cider. I got a lock on a local orchard that will sell me as much cider as I want with no preservatives.

Wondering if I should do a batch of Graff or just a straight Cider??

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Look at my post just a couple above this one. Granted it was peach, but turned out very, very well. Just have to compensate in the recipe by measuring the OG of the cider.

tippetsnapper

thanks for the reply. Did the pasteurization process cause any haze with your final product?

It is hazy, but tastes good.

got my first batch in primary today, will see how it comes out.

Back sweetened with two cans of AJ and force carbed in the keg. The weekend is just a little hazy and its definitely a SWMBO killer there.

I used crystal 80 instead and treetop 3 apple blend. OG was 1.065 and final was 1.003 on this baby, so it will be quite tart!

Kegged it last night, so I'll let you know in a few days how it tastes.

I have the same (but with crystal 120) fermenting away right now. What yeast did you use? I have the same OG so curious if I am going to end up in much the same place (safale-05).

Man I love this stuff!

I have yet to make this, but I am planning on it. I was curious what anybody thinks about adding some pumpkin and a little pumpkin spice might do to this. It may be interesting. Any ideas?

I would make the original first....then see if you want to modify the recipe. But thats just me.

Oh absolutely. I'm going to brew this as soon as one of my fermenters is free. I was just drinking some Harvest Moon last night, thinking about what to brew next, and thought of Graff with pumpkin as a interesting taste combination. When I brew it, I will probably split 1gal off and try it with the pumpkin.

Sounds like a good plan. Best of luck with the pumpkin and of course post your results. I'm sure many would be interested.

Cheers

cscoggin said:

I have the same (but with crystal 120) fermenting away right now. What yeast did you use? I have the same OG so curious if I am going to end up in much the same place (safale-05).

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I used Nottingham. We tried a bit of the undercarbonated stuff last night and it was quite delicious. I can't wait to see how it turns out after a few weeks.

After loving my first batch even before it was 2 weeks old, I had to try pumpkin spice version a couple weeks ago.

I added 2 cans of pumpkin sprinkled with about 1 tsp. pumpkin pie spice that I roasted in the oven for about an hour. I added this to my boil and followed the recipe accordingly. My OG was a little lower than my first batch for some reason....I was expecting the opposite.

When I sampled during transfer to the carboy last week, I didn't get much pumpkin or spices so I think I'm going to make a tea and add a little more spice., but I hear that most of these flavors come out during aging so I am going light.

I will bottle some time in the next couple weeks, so I will let you guys know how it turns out. Can't wait!

I just tasted it after two weeks in the carboy, it was VERY tart. It may just need to age in the bottles some? I used cider not juice and it is definitely not clear, more of a pumpkin looking orange color. I sanitize everything, I mean everything so I don't think it has gone bad.

OG was 1.60 and finished right at 1.00, I think I will add some splenda to sweeten.

Made my batch today. LHBS didn't have any torrified wheat, so I decided to go with regular red wheat. I also added 1oz of honey wheat. I also used 2lbs of dark DME instead of the light/dark mix. Waiting for it to cool down now so I can pitch the Notty. Smells very interesting. I can't wait to keg this and enjoy it!

IndyMatt said:

I just tasted it after two weeks in the carboy, it was VERY tart. It may just need to age in the bottles some? I used cider not juice and it is definitely not clear, more of a pumpkin looking orange color. I sanitize everything, I mean everything so I don't think it has gone bad.

OG was 1.60 and finished right at 1.00, I think I will add some splenda to sweeten.

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Keep faith alive, IndyMatt...I thought the same thing when I tasted my first batch at bottling time (FG 1.008). It was really sour and hazy, and got even worse when I tasted a bottle 4 days after bottling....VERY sour with no taste of apples anywhere. Let me tell you though...I have had a sample a week and just had another after 24 days in the bottle and WOW! This is getting better than almost any commercial cider I have tried. Almost all the sourness has disappeared, the apple flavor and sweetness has returned and it has cleared up perfectly!

I just brewed my second batch a couple weeks ago and thought I was going to prime it with AJ concentrate to bring out more sweetness and apple flavor, but after just tasting that last bottle, I am wondering if I should just do everything the same as I did the first time.

That is reassuring, I back sweetened with splenda so it will be on the sweeter side which is good for me. I will try another back as long as this turns out good and see how it goes without back sweetening. Of course mine was a lot lower FG than yours it was 1.00, I measured 4 times just to make sure it was a true reading.

I brewed 5 gals in Aug. and had two bottles so far. Neither was to my liking. I think the problem is with what I'm drinking before (beer). I tried some this morning and it wasn't nearly as bad as last night. So after I get off work (and get home) I'll try some first. I'd hate to think I'd wasted 5 gals of Graff... pete

Some people just plain don't like it. I like it, but my wife hates it. Everyone's different I guess.

Well, last night I had some Graff before I had any other beer. Not bad, but not impressive. I think I'd like a little more apple flavor. Since I have quite a few bottles in reserve, I'll continue my research. Time vs. taste.

For the Graff I was able to buy everything but the torrified wheat. I looked online for substituions and they didn't have flaked wheat either. They did have wheat but I believe all I can do is use their mill to crush it. I did't think crushed and flaked was the same thing. I read about using maybe puffed wheat cereal (all natural) My LHBS is a natural foods store so they had this. I also read to use wheat DME for one of th 2 lbs of DME the recipe called for.

That is what I went with I replaced the 1 lb or light DME with 1 lb or wheat DME.

Are there better options am I ok? Suggestions?

Gonna start a batch of this sometime this week!

Only thing I'm not sure about is what qualifies as a "cheap store brand"...anything cheap from a store? Thinking of finding something like Mott's that doesn't have preservatives.

Just wondering so I know which kind of crystal I should use...seems like 120L would cover most, if not all, of the apple taste.

Thanks!

Obi said:

Gonna start a batch of this sometime this week!

Only thing I'm not sure about is what qualifies as a "cheap store brand"...anything cheap from a store? Thinking of finding something like Mott's that doesn't have preservatives.

Just wondering so I know which kind of crystal I should use...seems like 120L would cover most, if not all, of the apple taste.

Thanks!

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Any 100% apple juice with no preservatives should work. The next batch I do will use 120L. I want to try and use unfermentable malt sweetness to balance the tartness a bit more.

Alright, sounds good! Guess I'll try the 120L to start with, seems to be what alot of people have been saying works

I used Great Value juice so I figured that counted as cheap juice so I used the 120L

What temp do you ferment this stuff at? It's been 24 hrs and I have no airlock activity yet. Everything else I have brewed I have had activity within 12hrs. My basement where I ferment is keeps the temps around 62 - 64 F is this too cool or do I just gotta wait longer?

Made a 5 gallon batch today, but substituted the light dme, with wheat dme. I like sweet ciders so hopefully this will do the trick... also i thought it would add some head retention since its so hard to find torrified wheat.

akthor said:

Are there better options am I ok? Suggestions?

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The torrified wheat is mostly for head retention. You could sub with carapils and be okay.

akthor said:

What temp do you ferment this stuff at? It's been 24 hrs and I have no airlock activity yet. Everything else I have brewed I have had activity within 12hrs. My basement where I ferment is keeps the temps around 62 - 64 F is this too cool or do I just gotta wait longer?

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Whate yeast did you use? You likely just need to wait longer......(I hope Revvy sees this so he doesn't come breaking the door down with his 'fermentation can take 72 hours to start' sermon )

I used the Nottinham

Who actually wants a head on cider? It doesn't hold a head anyway normally. Are there some US commercial products that actually hold a head?