0 min hops? How long?

The last hops addition at 0 min; how long dose this stay in the wort. If I turn the fire off and pump the wort through the plate chiller, it would seem to not have much time to do any good? Any thoughts on this?

This is a very good question,and is far as i understand, "aroma" is "obtained" fast so I dont think time matters as much as first temprature. But I want to ad something: I cool my wort as quick as possible, but it stil takes 2-3 hours before it is under 25'C. How does that effect the hop profile?

mikescooling said:

The last hops addition at 0 min; how long dose this stay in the wort. If I turn the fire off and pump the wort through the plate chiller, it would seem to not have much time to do any good? Any thoughts on this?

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Good question. I just brewed a porter w/zero hop addition. I let it and the other hops (in bags) stay in the mix until it was cool enough to add the yeast. Don't know if that's right, but it's what I just did yesterday.

Interesting. Are you saying you remove the leftover hops before fermenting? I leave everything that was in the boil to be added to the primary. I don't take anything out. I use an immersion chiller and 10 minutes later pitch the yeast and seal up the vessel for a couple of weeks.

mikescooling said:

The last hops addition at 0 min; how long dose this stay in the wort. If I turn the fire off and pump the wort through the plate chiller, it would seem to not have much time to do any good? Any thoughts on this?

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For a hoppy beer, I'll often do a "hop stand" after flame out. That is, let the beer sit for a few minutes before starting the chiller. Then I recirculate the wort, so that the entire batch is about 140 before sending it to my fermenter. I like the hops flavor and aroma profile I get as a result.

DannyD said:

This is a very good question,and is far as i understand, "aroma" is "obtained" fast so I dont think time matters as much as first temprature. But I want to ad something: I cool my wort as quick as possible, but it stil takes 2-3 hours before it is under 25'C. How does that effect the hop profile?

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That does change it somewhat. The longer the wort stays hot (even not boiling), the more the hops are still contributing some small bittering amounts.

Yooper said:

For a hoppy beer, I'll often do a "hop stand" after flame out. That is, let the beer sit for a few minutes before starting the chiller. Then I recirculate the wort, so that the entire batch is about 140 before sending it to my fermenter. I like the hops flavor and aroma profile I get as a result.

That does change it somewhat. The longer the wort stays hot (even not boiling), the more the hops are still contributing some small bittering amounts.

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I have a somewhat similar practice: I have a wider-than-high brew pot and do a 10-min whirlpool/rest after flameout before starting my CFC and taking another 20 min to cool the wort. That really gives me a great aroma and flavor as well as a bit more bitterness.

I've heard that the magic number for isomerization is 190F, and I think my wort stays above that until it goes thru the CFC.

Also curious about that,then noticed a pattern to a guy give out IPA recipes
All the 0 Min/flame out additions were "post boil" 30 min whirlpool at 100>150F
Tried it on last brew..still have 2 till i dry hop.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/i-will-build-your-ipa-iipa-part-2-a-333387/

OK maybe I am doing it wrong, but this is what I do. I use a grain bag for a hop bag. The grain bag will stretch across the handles of my brew pot, making and approx. 4 inch opening. When I offer the last hops normally I just place them in the bag and turn off the heat. Then pull the bag out on 1-2 mins, and then remove the bag and the spent hop, place chiller in the wort and chill down to yeast temps. Is that not the way to do this?

My method is to add the hops and turn off the heat and start the stirring the whirlpool. I then let it sit and spin as I prep the chiller. After the spinning seems to have stopped, I start the chill, working from the top and siphoning down. You def. want the hops to spend some time in the hot wort, but of course if you chill, you also want to chill relatively soon.

Note that lately I have started siphoning from the bottom using a copper scrubby placed over the end of the siphon tube. That way I can be cleaning stuff and not have to babysit the siphon to keep it from breaking. It seems to do a great job of keep crap out of the wort and still allowing the siphon to work.

I also do an aroma steep in my hoppier brews. I kill the flame, throw the aroma (zero min) add into a whirlpool and let it steep, covered, for __ minutes, depending on recipe. You can get a lot of flavor and aroma that way. There's a great article (set of articles, actually) in the latest Zymurgy on IPA brewing that goes into the different hops additions from mash hops to hopsacks and dry hopping. Pretty good read.

I do a minimum 10 rest after I turn off the flame for all hoppy beers. Sometimes longer. Add your 0 min hops, turn off the flame, leave the lid off, and set a timer.

A. Don't worry about anything falling in the beer. At 161* pasteurization occurs in 15 seconds. At 205*, it happens much faster.
B. If you have a pump, and you can recirculate your wort, do so.
C. If you don't have a pump, don't worry. Just turn off the heat and give it the occasional stir.
D. Isomerization of alpha acids drops considerably at 205* compared to a rolling 212* boil. You will extract some bitterness, but we're talking like 2-5IBU

I've found I get a much bigger, punchier, and complex hop aroma when I allow the flameout hops to steep hot for at least 10 minutes. I wrote a blog post about it here: http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/2012/03/hoppy-beers-and-whirlpool-hops.html

Give it a try yourself. Scale your bittering hops back around 5IBU, and do a rest after flameout.

This is what I do.

Chill wort after boil as quickly as possible to about 150 F, or a little higher. A wort chiller helps this process.

Remove wort chiller, add hops, whirpool, cover. Never use the wort chiller again for this beer.

Let the kettle sit anywhere from 20-60 minutes while chilling slowly in an ice bath down to 65 F.

Voila. I've done this about 100 times and I always get more out of my whirlpool additions than most brewers I know. The warm, long hop stand offers a much different hop character than the hot, flameout addition at 0... which is almost no different than adding the hops at 1-5 minutes.

Tip: Only use pellet hops for this! They give off more of their aroma in a much shorter time frame and the myrcene content released into the wort is greater. Myrcene is the wonderful aromatic oil that is almost solely responsible for making IPAs smell great. I find that the aromas provided hold up better in warm wort than very hot or boiling wort.

Scottland, good article man!!! Lots of god info on this thread. So in a nut shell, send the hot wart back to the BK and recirculate for 10-20min, then send it to the plate chiller and chill down to 80F on its way into the carboy. I will change the way I brew, thanks guys!!

Yooper said:

For a hoppy beer, I'll often do a "hop stand" after flame out. That is, let the beer sit for a few minutes before starting the chiller. Then I recirculate the wort, so that the entire batch is about 140 before sending it to my fermentor.

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Out of curiosity, why do you send it over at such a high temp?

scottland said:

I've found I get a much bigger, punchier, and complex hop aroma when I allow the flameout hops to steep hot for at least 10 minutes. I wrote a blog post about it here: http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/2012/03/hoppy-beers-and-whirlpool-hops.html.

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Good write up, man! It's a great technique for hoppy brews, I do it pretty much anytime I have a '0' minute add and it works wonders for my beer's hops aroma, and flavor to some extend.

So is it advisable to just get rid of an earlier addition (say at 5 minutes) for the 0 (10 min steep)? Is there a calculator for IBU's gained?

I wasn't able to find one. Hop utilization definitely goes down quite a bit, but it's not something that's easy to calculate. So if you do a 10 min steep, you might get 10% hop utilization rather than 30%. So that 10min steep would provide the IBUs that a 3min boil addition would have.

I'm pulling those numbers out of thin air. You'll have to experiment with it, and see how it works on your system. There are a lot of factors at work. A thin walled aluminum kettle on a cold day could drop the wort temp to 190-195* after a 10 minute rest. 10 gallons of wort in a stainless keggle on a hot day could still be 207* after 10 minutes. Isomerization slows to a crawl at 190*, so see how it makes a difference?