Saison

If anyone has brewed a Saison before and had good success please take a look at my recipe and see if I should tweak things. I plan to use white labs 566. Thanks.

saison 1
Saison


Type: All Grain
Date: 6/30/2012
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Brewer:
Boil Size: 6.82 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (15 Gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 69.57 %
2.75 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 23.91 %
0.75 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6.52 %
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 17.8 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.063 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.06 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 24.4 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 5.4 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 11.50 lb
Sparge Water: 5.41 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 14.38 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 21.6 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Looks pretty good.

A couple of things., but these are my preference so take that into consideration.

I like my saisons dry so I do add some sugar. You could drop some grain and replace it with sugar. I have not used that yeast. My LHBS carries Wyeast, but I find saison yeasts tend to finish lower than predicted by software. But still I think adding some sugar makes them dry out better. A saison should finish low, maybe in the 1.003-1.004 range. If you are not looking for a high abv brew then you could even drop the OG a little. I happen to like them with that OG but they can go down easy and hit you a little harder than you expect.

Second you could probably get the IBU's up a little. Right now the BU:GU ratio is about .38 and I like it higher. More in the ..48 range.

Saisons are great brews.

Enjoy.

I also think it looks fine. I added a pound of sugar to mine and a little honey and a lemon peel, otherwise it was similar and I fermented with WLP565.

Personally, I'd drop the mash temp a few more degrees to increase the fermentability.

Just my 2 cents worth, but I like a maltier mash temp (about 153 ish) and I would add either sweet or bitter orange peel to the boil. Add it (if you use it) with 15 minutes left in the boil. Instead of straight-up sugar, add some candi sugar. You can make your own at home. Here is the link that I have used multiple times to make it. Plan about 20 minutes to make it and do it at least the day before you brew.

avidhomebrewer said:

Just my 2 cents worth, but I like a maltier mash temp (about 153 ish)

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Okay, but that is pretty out of character for a saison. They are typically fermented bone dry.

Sure, you're free to brew your beer any way you want, regardless of whether everything is how it's "supposed" to be for the style, but I just want to make sure that the less experienced brewers reading this understand that this particular personal preference is definitely a deviation from the style.

With that said, I'd recommend a 90 min mash at around 143-145°, and making *table sugar* comprise at least 10% of the grain bill (by gravity points, not weight) in order to really nail the conventional saison. Also, 2.4 volumes is not nearly carbonated enough for a saison. I know Tasty Brew shows it as the upper end of the range, but that's pretty off... saison are usually very effervescent - I'd aim for at least 3 volumes.

avidhomebrewer said:

. Instead of straight-up sugar, add some candi sugar.

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I've seen this repeated a lot lately. Not only do I use regular table sugar or corn sugar all the time to good effect, but the solid form of candi sugar (as opposed to the liquid) is essentially a waste of money to no benefit. For Belgian styles JZ recommends using "the cheapest table sugar you can find" and reports that's what the Belgian breweries do. Sure you can make your own, but why bother?

Also, +1 to low fermentation temperature. I do 146-147F for 90min to get it down around 1.004.

Of course the great thing about home brew is that you can make it as you like it

Here's my experience from brewing about 15 Saisons:

I'll second that about candi sugar. Most candi sugar rocks and light syrup are essentially the same as cheap table sugar. Candi syrup is only important for dark belgian styles like a dubbel or quad, and it's only the dark syrup that is different from table sugar. Dark candi rocks don't add nearly as much color or flavor.

Sugar doesn't work well with wyeast French Saison (3711) in my experience, but it's pretty nice with wlp566.

I'd consider removing some of the pilsner malt, and replacing it so you have 5-10% table sugar, because you have a pretty hefty beer at 1.063 OG. You'll have a more dry beer that way, and the malts, esters and hops won't be muffled by sweetness. For Saison, you want dry dry dry and crisp and rough. Lowering the mash temperature may also help with this, although if you were using some strains like French Saison, the mash temperature probably wouldn't matter.

Another suggestion I'd throw out there is to boost the flame-out hops. In my experience, the hoppier saisons have been the best ones. Late noble hops make the mouth-feel fuller, without adding weight to it. Also, noble hops blend very well with Saison esters. Consider maybe an extra ounce of hops after flame-out?

I've never used that much Munich or Vienna, but I've heard it recommended to use only Munich, or only Vienna; which I think is meant to make a stronger, more definable flavor note. My only experience with darker Saisons is with roasty versions, and in those the roasty flavors always clashed with the peppery yeast flavors.

I just finished brewing a saison, and used wlp566. I had a pretty simple malt bill, I don't have my notes with me but it was something like 78% 2-row, 10% white wheat, 8% flaked corn, 4% carapils. I didn't use any table sugar or dextrose in the boil, but within 2 weeks my gravity had gone from 1.065 to 1.005, and after another 10 days in secondary finished at 1.004. I have never used a yeast as active as 566, but I really like the results. I fermented at the high end (upper 70's) which had a lot to do with it, but my experience was that I didn't need to add any sugar to finish dry.

I was lowering the mash temp a few degrees to about 147. Also I've read that after a certain certain point there is no use in longer mash times. So for this one I'd like to try and go for 75 mins and later do a 90 to see if i can see a difference.

I really don't like the idea of adding extra sugar though. shouldn't the lower mash temp allow the beer to finish dry? (more fermentable sugars?)

I've also seen people fermenting these in the 80-90's with good results. This yeast has an optimal temp of 68-78 so I will try and keep it in the upper range.

As for grains I read in the beer judge style guide that saisons usually have Vienna and/or Munich. Using my beer smith program i tried to keep everything in style keep the color light and try and keep the abv reasonable.

Thanks for all your replies. It's good to know that I'm not crazy off with my recipe.

I would not increase the IBUs. As the beer dries out, more hop bitterness will be revealed. 24 IBUs doesn't sound like much, but it can be significant in a beer that finishes at 1.004.

A also would not add any orange or corriander. While that might make a nice flavor addition, you should make one "straight" first, then experiment on your next batch.

Good Luck! I've been wanting to try that yeast. I've used Wyeast 3711 and 3724 (in the fermenter now).

Otiluke said:

I really don't like the idea of adding extra sugar though. shouldn't the lower mash temp allow the beer to finish dry? (more fermentable sugars?)

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That's exactly what I did. I mashed at around 147F for 75 mins and was able to finish at 1.004 w/out any sugar.

Otiluke said:

Also I've read that after a certain certain point there is no use in longer mash times. So for this one I'd like to try and go for 75 mins and later do a 90 to see if i can see a difference.

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The longer mash times are because of the low mash temps recommended. At such low temps, conversion takes longer.

I'm not an expert on Belgians by any stretch, but here are my 2 cents on authenticity. When I imagine the typical farmer back in the day over in Belgium, I expect old boy didn't have Vienna or Munich malt just lying around. What I bet he did have was barley, wheat, corn, maybe some rye, maybe some rice, and sugar. I'm sure he just mashed some combination of those together and threw it in an open vat to let nature have it's way with it. THAT would be authentic.

smiller said:

I'm not an expert on Belgians by any stretch, but here are my 2 cents on authenticity. When I imagine the typical farmer back in the day over in Belgium, I expect old boy didn't have Vienna or Munich malt just lying around. What I bet he did have was barley, wheat, corn, maybe some rye, maybe some rice, and sugar. I'm sure he just mashed some combination of those together and threw it in an open vat to let nature have it's way with it. THAT would be authentic.

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Sigh...

Munich/Vienna are just degrees of kilning. And they certainly did kiln their germinated barley. It might not be EXACTLY the same as what it used to.And it won't, because it would turn out differently for everyone. But by the same token, somebody would have been using something almost exactly like the Munich or Vienna he'll be using (ie some degree of melanoidin malt), and certainly as close as one can get with modern commercial malt.

That being said, one can just use plain old two-row or pilsener malt and no other malts, if they want. Dupont does. But they get their melanoidins from a MUCH longer boil.

smiller said:

I'm not an expert on Belgians by any stretch, but here are my 2 cents on authenticity. When I imagine the typical farmer back in the day over in Belgium, I expect old boy didn't have Vienna or Munich malt just lying around. What I bet he did have was barley, wheat, corn, maybe some rye, maybe some rice, and sugar. I'm sure he just mashed some combination of those together and threw it in an open vat to let nature have it's way with it. THAT would be authentic.

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I would also guess they had as many crap by our standards as great batches.

I find that you can push the bitterness if you use a low cohumulone hop (the ones with smooth bitterness). I've done a Saison with Apollo hops; 1.065 OG and 50 ibus, and it has a really nice balanced bitterness, even though it finished at 1.001 (!!!!!).

I wasn't clear, emjay. I highly doubt they were kilning their barley to the styles of Munich and Vienna.

I think any malt kilned on a farm 200 years ago would be noticeably darker than pils malt, very inconsistent, and probably a little smoky. Saisons were also intended to be consumed by farmworkers at the rate of about a gallon per day, so I would imagine that the abv was around 2%, or there would have been a lot of thresher-related fatalaties.