Apple Bee (Woodchuck Clone)

Williams 728
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flyweed said:
Do you mean me? Mine isn't so different. his FG was 1.006 and mine was 1.010 only a couple points difference....my gravity was taken at 70F...so if he was cooler or warmer, it would give a different reading as well. I think mine still has just a bit to go...I'll take another gravity reading in a couple weeks and see where we are at.

Otherwise mine sounds exactly like Jay's.

Dan
Click to expand...

Well I was talking about end result, he said his tasted like Woodchuck. I don't remember woodchuck having the same properties as you listed. It defiantly has nothing in the way of alcohol burn. I also would say its fairly sweet even the 302 (amber dry version). But then Jay mentioned it needs to age to smooth itself out so maybe that's why.

Please let me know how it tastes after it ages, I followed his recipe spot on also but have not bottled yet!
 
Hey guys,

This brew has been bottled for almost three weeks.. I brewed on Jan 29 and bottled on the last day of february. I cracked one the other night, and both my wife and I tasted it.. I am not sure what I expected, but I must confess I did not really enjoy that first one and neither did she.. It's got a weird kind of "smoky" type flavor which I cant place. It also still kinda smells a little like rhino farts.. It clears up quickly but you can definitely smell when pouring. Doesnt taste like rhino farts, so thats a good thing. So, not trying to be a downer, just giving my .02..

For those who care, I followed the original recipe to the letter, but did not get an OG (I spaced it totally. I am a bonehead..)So I didn't mess with taking a FG either.

Now, I will say that neither my wife or I had ever tried or even heard of woodchuck before the OP here.. So I have no basis for comparison.. And, we tried it warm.. I have some in the fridge now that I am gonna crack tonight and give it another whirl. If I still dont like it, I will wait a few more weeks and try another.. Here's to hoping it grows on me!:mug:
 
Well..the reason I made this batch was because of the talk that it tasted like Woodchuck Granny Smith Cider. I would say that the sour apple/green apple taste of it would qualify to say that..but the comparisons stop at that point. It is indeed a darker, heavier drink..which I expected from the malts involved. I do drink a ton of Wood chuck ciders, and I don't think this one can be compared to it. Woodchuck is light, clean and crisp and sweet. This drink is crisp, not sweet, with very complex flavors and fairly full bodied.

Like I said, I am bulk aging it now, and am going to try it in a couple weeks and see where we are at. Then I may backsweeten a bit, and force carb and see what happens from there.
Dan
 
bullrider4 said:
Hey guys,

This brew has been bottled for almost three weeks.. I brewed on Jan 29 and bottled on the last day of february. I cracked one the other night, and both my wife and I tasted it.. I am not sure what I expected, but I must confess I did not really enjoy that first one and neither did she.. It's got a weird kind of "smoky" type flavor which I cant place. It also still kinda smells a little like rhino farts.. It clears up quickly but you can definitely smell when pouring. Doesnt taste like rhino farts, so thats a good thing. So, not trying to be a downer, just giving my .02..

For those who care, I followed the original recipe to the letter, but did not get an OG (I spaced it totally. I am a bonehead..)So I didn't mess with taking a FG either.

Now, I will say that neither my wife or I had ever tried or even heard of woodchuck before the OP here.. So I have no basis for comparison.. And, we tried it warm.. I have some in the fridge now that I am gonna crack tonight and give it another whirl. If I still dont like it, I will wait a few more weeks and try another.. Here's to hoping it grows on me!:mug:
Click to expand...


The Smokey flavor must of came from the chocolate malts, and I am guessing the Rhino Farts smell came from it not being left to age long enough in the primary / secondary. I have made a few ciders before and learned to never bottle until I smell absolutely no sulfur in the odor.

But anyways I mentioned earlier that Flyweed must of made his slightly different because his sounds so different then what woodchuck tastes like.

I buy Woodchuck and Hornsbys every other week, my wife goes ape-**** over the stuff. I happen to like it myself, so I was hoping to nail a clone of the granny smith version. This sounds like it might be a very good and interesting drink, although Jay swears the final result is a clone. So I am still holding on to some hope.
 
Aleforge said:
But anyways I mentioned earlier that Flyweed must of made his slightly different because his sounds so different then what woodchuck tastes like.

I buy Woodchuck and Hornsbys every other week, my wife goes ape-**** over the stuff. I happen to like it myself, so I was hoping to nail a clone of the granny smith version. This sounds like it might be a very good and interesting drink, although Jay swears the final result is a clone. So I am still holding on to some hope.
Click to expand...

According to the Woodchuck Site, the granny smith cider is (not surprisingly) made from only granny smith apples. Now that said, I don't see how you can "clone" a cider, which is made from only one variety of apple, by using sugars not originating from an apple at all, but from malt, which contains much more complex sugars and flavors (especally chocolate malt). There has been much discussion around here about the difficulty of cloning a certain brand of cider, because the variety of apples used for the juice is so very important. Not to say this recipe won't taste good, just saying IMHO it will most probably taste nothing like woodchuck granny smith.
 
Update on my batch.
Fermentation has slowed way down ,almost to a stop .
Decided I'd take a hydro reading and see where I was at.
The first thing I noticed when I uncovered it was how much lighter the color was. Pulled off a sample for my reading and it smelled so good I pulled a glass full at the same time.
Stuff taste fantastic and it still needs to drop a couple more points.
It's at 1.010 now ,so I'll give it another week ,but in my opinion it already taste better than woodchuck.
I was surprised that I got no caramel taste from the crystal 77 ,just a nice mild sweetness.
If it finishes and tastes as good as it does now , it will be a constant in my brewing rotation.
Thanks again for a great recipe.

applecider002.jpg

ciderble002.jpg
 
Holy crap..that's light. Did you use any "chocolate malt" in your brew at all???? Mine is much darker than the above photos.

Dan
 
Hi after reading this thread I decided to register here.

I currently have a 4 gallon batch of cider going in a 5 gal bucket. I've been posting updates on my personal blog. The only reason I stuck to 4 gallons was because I only had enough cash on hand to buy 4 gallons of juice, oops...

I didn't follow any fancy recipe's so I hope to take a few hints from here when I start a new batch. I started with 1 smack pack of Wyeast 4677 and 4 gallons of Indian Summer Cider, which is just unfiltered pasteurized apple juice, nothing else added. It's been going for a little over 96 hours now.

I noticed a lot of talk of the "rhino farts" the sulphur is produced by the apples and should go away after a couple of weeks, or so I've been told. A friend recommended I rack the cider and do a secondary fermentation for at least twice the amount of time it took for my primary to stop bubbling. This way it will be drinkable at bottling time, but I also plan to try to carb some of them. Going to split up the batch and carb some using sugar and some using pomegranate juice, and leave some flat.

Looks like a good community here I'll be sure to post an update on my cider later.
 
no chocolate ,just the crystal 77 and 1 pound of extra light DME, next time I'll use the crystal 10. I got no caramel flavor from the 77 . I checked again tonight and it's stabilized at 1.08
and the taste has really mellowed since my last post. Did 2 glasses tonight ,uncarbed with 10 minutes in the freezer and it was mighty tasty . Gonna give 1 more week to settle and clear and then bottle it.
Started out at just over 3 1/2 gallons , probably 3 gallons now.:drunk:
 
flylock_jac said:
no chocolate ,just the crystal 77 and 1 pound of extra light DME, next time I'll use the crystal 10. I got no caramel flavor from the 77 . I checked again tonight and it's stabilized at 1.08
and the taste has really mellowed since my last post. Did 2 glasses tonight ,uncarbed with 10 minutes in the freezer and it was mighty tasty . Gonna give 1 more week to settle and clear and then bottle it.
Started out at just over 3 1/2 gallons , probably 3 gallons now.:drunk:
Click to expand...

Well no matter its outcome it sounds like this is going to be a very tasty recipe. Did your krausen ever fall? Mine has been going for a month and has never fallen.
 
I never had any krausen , just some bubbles and a tad of foam. It took off in a couple hours and was going good the next morning . Not a real violent fermentation. No Rhino farts either. I was out of Vodka so I used vanilla extract (70 proof) in my air lock and the room smelled great.
I only used 1 pound of extra light DME , 3 gallons of A.J. (motts) the crystal 77 ,
and Nottie Ale yeast. About 1/2 gallon of h2o for steeping and t-bagging.
When it's ready , I'll prime with frozen concentrate and see what happens.
 
Sounds good. I am going to be racking mine out of the secondary and into a 5 gallon corny this weekend. I will take another sample taste and see where we are at. Yours looks like it could use a little more time "clearing" in the secondary. Looks good though.
Dan
 
jtbarclay said:
Hi after reading this thread I decided to register here.

I currently have a 4 gallon batch of cider going in a 5 gal bucket. I've been posting updates on my personal blog. The only reason I stuck to 4 gallons was because I only had enough cash on hand to buy 4 gallons of juice, oops...

I didn't follow any fancy recipe's so I hope to take a few hints from here when I start a new batch. I started with 1 smack pack of Wyeast 4677 and 4 gallons of Indian Summer Cider, which is just unfiltered pasteurized apple juice, nothing else added. It's been going for a little over 96 hours now.

I noticed a lot of talk of the "rhino farts" the sulphur is produced by the apples and should go away after a couple of weeks, or so I've been told. A friend recommended I rack the cider and do a secondary fermentation for at least twice the amount of time it took for my primary to stop bubbling. This way it will be drinkable at bottling time, but I also plan to try to carb some of them. Going to split up the batch and carb some using sugar and some using pomegranate juice, and leave some flat.

Looks like a good community here I'll be sure to post an update on my cider later.
Click to expand...


:off:Hey, man! Welcome to the community.. You picked a good thread to join on.. Jayhuff has everything here.. drama, intrigue, and controversy. Oh.. and a pretty good brew as well! Welcome aboard
 
yep, any kind of bottled juice, and from concentrate as long as it contains no preservatives or other chemicals...should be 100% juice. and contain, water, juice and vitamin C is fine too (ascorbic acid)sp?

Dan
 
Well I just finished bottling my applebee . Started with a 3 gallon batch + - a quart or so that I steeped the crystal malt in. After sneaking a few glasses during the process I ended up with a case (24) and two glasses for my work.
It finished at 7.5 ABV and is still tasty , but I think I'll leave the DME out of the next batch. It taste more like an apple ale now ,rather than a cider ,but still am very happy with it.
I did prime with frozen apple concentrate ,so I'll see if the flavor of the apple comes out more after it's carbonated.
Was a long month waiting, but and glad I took the plunge and will head out to the store tomorrow for more apple juice.
Will go for a full 5 gallon batch now that I know the results .
I did use Notty ale yeast , and am curious if anyone prefers a different ale yeast for brewing this ?
 
It has been a while since I have been on! You guys have been having a great conversation about things here. I will say here that to call this a Woodchuck clone is a stretch after several batches- some turn out more like it than others, but that is because of all the experimentation that I have done to the recipe. I don't think I have brewed the exact same recipe twice!

But then again, that is the fun of brewing! This recipe came about as a result of the conversation in the Carmel Apple Cider= which is what I was going for in the beginning.

Anyway fellas, have fun experimenting- post recipes/tweeks- and then results. We all can learn from each other.

BTW-flyloc-jac, my favorite yeast to use so far has been the WPL300- hefeweisen yeast. Leaves it sweeter and doesn't dry out as much as the Notty (which I also enjoyed) :)
 
BTW-flyloc-jac, my favorite yeast to use so far has been the WPL300- hefeweisen yeast. Leaves it sweeter and doesn't dry out as much as the Notty (which I also enjoyed)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the yeast info , will give it a try on my new batch and compare.
 
Jay, I'd have to agree with you after making this first batch and keeping close watch on it this entire process. It's dark, complex, full bodied and YUMMY...BUT....woodchuck it ain't. I've drank enough woodchuck (all 3 flavors) to know the difference.

So..my first word of caution to those guys looking for something that tastes like Woodchuck..this isn't the recipe you want. With that said, it's a great recipe, and I love the finished product. But again, it's definitely not light, clean and crisp it's a darker, heavier drink with good head, sour apple notes, and no residual sweetness. It is a unique flavor. I've come to really appreciate it's full flavor and texture, over that of say an Apfelwein or Apfelwein clone.

I'd make more.
Dan
 
Great info Dan. I would be interested in how close you feel it is when you omit the chocolate malt and go with pilsner malt, torrified wheat, crystal 10L, and use the hefe yeast. I am going to do an AG version of this and I will post the step by step with photos of this.

BTW- the AG version I do will be something everyone can do by adding a small cooler and gallon paint strainer bags from Lowes/Home Depot. Anyone want to do this with me and keep notes to post here?
 
Jay, oh this beverage would most certainly be lighter in taste and texture with the omission of the dark chocolate malt. I am wondering if after a week or so, to rack this onto a bunch of chopped up granny smith apples, or fresh pressed green apples would be wonderfully delicious.

Dan
 
Mine is ready to bottle, I ended up not moving it to a secondary and just let it clear up in primary an extra few weeks. Mostly because I got busy and forgot about it. The color looks awesome though, and it no longer carries any sulfur aroma.
 
flyweed said:
But again, it's definitely not light, clean and crisp it's a darker, heavier drink with good head, sour apple notes, and no residual sweetness. It is a unique flavor.
Click to expand...

Bottled and sampled today, I would have to agree on all points.

Heavy, Dark, very tart / sour, no residual sweetness. How is it once it ages? I can taste the toasty malts in the background. I think that would be the biggest thing to omit for me in the future. Otherwise its interesting enough, hoping once carbed and cold it mellows out.
 
Aleforge...it is really a nice drink with a little age. I have no noticable alcohol taste..but the dark/chocolaty/smoky taste remains prominent during the first smell and taste as it hits the front of your mouth..you get the sour apple sensation as you swallow with the smootheness of the malt as well. I prefer my cider a bit lighter and sweeter than this..so I have done an experiment I took 2.5 gallons of this off my 5 gallon keg and added a can of apple juice concentrate..am letting it sit for a week now and carbonating to see where that ends up. I think it'll bring back some sweetness and should be really really good.
Dan
 
Zul'jin said:
I really messed up this time. Yep. I should have made 1 pot to ferment and 1 pot to drink right now. I'm sipping a glass of it. WOW! It's apple and cinnamon and caramel (I didn't add caramel) and a light taste of beer all at once. Tspt-tspt-tspt... I can tastes a little allspice too. It is VERY sweet.

Revised, again. I cannot have a big pot boiling and not add stuff to it. :D Brown sugar has been lessened by 2 cups and other spices measured.

*1 pound crystal grain cracked and steeped from room temp to 170F
*3 gallons treetop apple juice
*3 pounds extra light DME full boil
*1 cup turbinado brown sugar near the end
*Heaping 1/8 cup cinnamon near the end
*4 dashes nutmeg also near the end
*4 dashes allspice near the end
*Cool and pitch starter made with red Star champagne yeast, turbinado brown sugar and water
*Let 3 gallon wort ferment for 2-3 weeks, taking hydrometer readings
*Put 3 gallon wort plus 2 more gallons juice and maybe 1 cup turbinado brown sugar into secondary
*Probably wait a long time since fermentation will ramp back up
*Maybe transfer to thirduary vessel
*Prime and bottle
*Wait
*Druck
Click to expand...

I wonder how this one that Zul'jin did toward the beginning of this thread turned out? I'll probably be trying this recipe with a few steps of yeast energizer to ensure avoiding stuck fermentation. :mug:
 
I did a slight variation of this recipe, and although I thought it turned out wayyy to dry I entered it in a competition as an English Cider and it took 2nd place. Thanks for the inspirational recipe Jay! For my drinking pleasure I'm going to go a little sweeter next time.
 
Well I know it's been some time since I last visited, but I have finished the keg of this. I am going to make another batch but with some different additions. I'll post as I go. THis one, in it's original form, is just too dark, chocolatey and sour for my tastes. I may give Brandon's recipe a whirl.

Dan
 
Zul'jin said:
I really messed up this time. Yep. I should have made 1 pot to ferment and 1 pot to drink right now. I'm sipping a glass of it. WOW! It's apple and cinnamon and caramel (I didn't add caramel) and a light taste of beer all at once. Tspt-tspt-tspt... I can tastes a little allspice too. It is VERY sweet.

Revised, again. I cannot have a big pot boiling and not add stuff to it. :D Brown sugar has been lessened by 2 cups and other spices measured.

*1 pound crystal grain cracked and steeped from room temp to 170F
*3 gallons treetop apple juice
*3 pounds extra light DME full boil
*1 cup turbinado brown sugar near the end
*Heaping 1/8 cup cinnamon near the end
*4 dashes nutmeg also near the end
*4 dashes allspice near the end
*Cool and pitch starter made with red Star champagne yeast, turbinado brown sugar and water
*Let 3 gallon wort ferment for 2-3 weeks, taking hydrometer readings
*Put 3 gallon wort plus 2 more gallons juice and maybe 1 cup turbinado brown sugar into secondary
*Probably wait a long time since fermentation will ramp back up
*Maybe transfer to thirduary vessel
*Prime and bottle
*Wait
*Druck
Click to expand...

I made this last week, a little different though, I cracked and steeped 1 lb of 40L Briess Crystal grains at 155 (25 mins), then brought to boil:

I added 3 pounds of ex light DME, then 1 pound of Belgian Dark Candy Sugar, and 4 ounces of Tupelo Honey at the end of the boil. As well as half of the cinnamon, all of the nutmeg and all spice as described above.

Once this was complete, I cooled, then added 6 cans of frozen Apple Juice, and three and a half gallons of bottled Apple Juice...

As this was going on, I prepped two packets of Lavlin Wine Yeast (EC-118), had them started and then added to the wort.

ended up being 5 3/4 gallons, OG = 1.086.

Day 5, so far there was a lot of movement in the bucket, but it has slowed considerably. Gravity reading this morning was 1.022. I'm going to leave in primary for 2 more full weeks, then transfer to secondary, where I was going to core, peel and cut up 6-8 apples and "dry hop" with a few cinnamon sticks (depending on how much cinnamon it tastes like, I don't want it over powering). I'm considering back sweetening, although I have never done anything like that so I'm not sure how to...

Once in secondary, I'm thinking I will leave for about 10 days, anyone have any suggestions?

I was going to keg this, but I may bottle a case and keg the rest...
 
Left this in primary for 18 days, everthing stipped, had it in secondary for a week when it was started slightly moving for another week, in total, 18 primary and 17 secondary. when I added potassium sorbate, it was at a 1.017 gravity. so about 9.06 (or rocket fuel, to me...). To much alcohol, I'll soften this when I'm completed.

Next, I added 2 pounds of dark brown sugar, mixed into 1/2 gallon of boiling water, then 3/4 gallon of apple juice, to bring it up to 7 gallons even. Since this watered down the alcohol, I re-worked my calculation like this: (9.06*5.75)/7 which told me that I now have a 7.44%, 7 gallon batch of cider. It still seems really strong when I taste it, so I'm not sure what to do.

Here is my plan, stick it into a secondary for about 5 weeks (New Years...). Then, at that point I'll drink it. If its too strong, then I'll cut it with another gallon of apple cider.
 
So, i brewed mine on 11/6 - but it feels like forever LOL - and have it kegged and carbed. I tasted it today and it is kinda odd. it is malty and then applish sour... is it just too young or did i somehow manage to mess up such a simple task?

I pulled it out of the kegerator to allow it to warm up in the garage (live in Georgia... not all that cold) and age a little more.

What do you think?
 
nope...you've got the taste right. It will have some strong chocolate malt overtones with a sour apple finish to it. It'll mellow and meld a bit with age, but that's pretty much it. Like I said in a previous post, I like it..but I don't love it. It's ok..but certainly not my taste.

Dan
 
I haven't seen any replies to this forum in a while.

JAYHUFF, What temperature is best to ferment this at?

Also, I was just wondering if anyone has made the original Jayhuff recipe on Page1 and what their results were.

Thanks ALL!
 
please read my previous posts. I made the exact recipe, and have my thoughts posted throughout this thread.
 
jayhuff said:
2 gal Apple Juice/cider (not from concentrate)
8 oz crystal 10L
4 oz chocolate malt
WLP300 (or wheat yeast)

makes 2.5 gallons

steep grains at 154 for 20 mins (I use a grain bag) in 1 qt of water
sparge grains with 1 qt at 170 (I just dunk for about 5 mins)

Ferment for about 4 weeks (similar to apfelwein) to get rid of the rhino farts smell. I think it tastes a lot like Granny Smith Woodchuck. People liked this alot.
-------------------

No hops in this so not a true beer- hence the Apple Bee. It is an excellent drink though, and I made my second batch of this tonight. A few tweeks, I added 1 ounce of torrified wheat (head retention) and 8 oz of german pilsner (malty fermentables). 8 oz of DME would work too. I didn't have hefe yeast, so I pitched plain muntons yeast. After 1 hour, it has a small krausen forming. I think I need to get ready for a violent fermentation!

Recipe Note If you are going to add more grains to do a mini mash, you will need to add more than 1 qt of water. The above notes were added as a side note to alterations that I made as an experiment for a mini mash- Follow the lb/grains=1.25qt strike & 1.25 qt sparge. Read up on mini mashes before you try this though. The original recipe works as written, any thing else you do, you are on your own (but that is the fun part of brewing!).
Click to expand...


Jay - Are you still making this? I am looking for something simple to try out the cider thing. I pretty much drink it all but the wifey likes it on the sweet side. Not syrup, just not bitter. I think I'll give this a shoot with some brown sugar.



Zul'jin said:
I really messed up this time. Yep. I should have made 1 pot to ferment and 1 pot to drink right now. I'm sipping a glass of it. WOW! It's apple and cinnamon and caramel (I didn't add caramel) and a light taste of beer all at once. Tspt-tspt-tspt... I can tastes a little allspice too. It is VERY sweet.

Revised, again. I cannot have a big pot boiling and not add stuff to it. :D Brown sugar has been lessened by 2 cups and other spices measured.

*1 pound crystal grain cracked and steeped from room temp to 170F
*3 gallons treetop apple juice
*3 pounds extra light DME full boil
*1 cup turbinado brown sugar near the end
*Heaping 1/8 cup cinnamon near the end
*4 dashes nutmeg also near the end
*4 dashes allspice near the end
*Cool and pitch starter made with red Star champagne yeast, turbinado brown sugar and water
*Let 3 gallon wort ferment for 2-3 weeks, taking hydrometer readings
*Put 3 gallon wort plus 2 more gallons juice and maybe 1 cup turbinado brown sugar into secondary
*Probably wait a long time since fermentation will ramp back up
*Maybe transfer to thirduary vessel
*Prime and bottle
*Wait
*Druck
Click to expand...


Zul'jin - This looks pretty fantastic. How long do you boil? Does it have a 'bite'? Is it at all sweet?

I realize this is an old thread. Hoping you all still brew this.
 
Just tested my batch. Close to FG I think at about 1.013. Tastes real nice for 8 days in. Gonna let it sit for a while settle out but I'm excited about its potential.
 
I will definitely be trying this recipe , if Brandon O likes it then it must be good ( I love Brandon's hopped cider recipe ) .


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
I put mine on tap yesterday. Pretty good. I'm excited to share it and already thinking about the next cider experiment. I think I might either go for the full on graff or do a version of this but make it a little darker.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 

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