theveganbrewer
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I'd go 200ml, 500ml, 1.5L, 1 Gallon. That works.
Conan Yeast Experiences
- Thread starter terrapinj
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Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
I'd go 200ml, 500ml, 1.5L, 1 Gallon. That works.
The largest I have is a 2L flask, so I can't put anything larger than that on a stirplate. Given that, is it ok to do multiple smaller steps as described above? Should I not be worried about innoculation rates?
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
You should be, sure. But if you have no options, you can't really worry that much. Do you have a grocery store or liquor store near you that sells gallon jugs of wine? I think it's Carlo Rossi brand, like 12.99 for a gallon of wine and a glass jar for yeast that will let you go up to about 3.75L.
cheaper yet: gallons of apple juice or apple cider. added bonus: you're not stuck with a gallon of cheap wine
The problem with those containers is they have convex bottoms and the stir bar won't stay spinning (in my experience). That's why you need flat bottomed flasks when using a stir plate.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I had that problem with the apple juice jars, which are expensive here, 10.99 since only organics go in glass, but the Carlo Rossi wine bottom works with all my bars.
Thanks for the tip. I may have to give it a shot then. Having the capacity to make a starter >2L would be helpful.
Spraentart
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So, I'm a lazy mofo and I slacked on stepping my Conan up. They have been sitting in mason jars for a month or so. Do you think they are still viable to step up or could they even be used in a beer at this point?
theveganbrewer
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It's yeast, no different from any other you used, and last for many months. As long as it is in the fridge, something is alive in there.
Spraentart
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theveganbrewer said:
What about if its not in the fridge lol
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
Probably still a good amount of live cells. Only one way to find out. Make a good size starter.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
You really only need one living colony to get something going. It'd help to know how much is alive so you can do the right size starter, but I start yeast off with just the size of a pin head worth of yeast and make them up from that big. I would assume 10% of whatever would normally be in there is alive at this point.
actually, if the yeast has been kept unrefrigerated he shouldn't go too big. probably best to step it up. start with 400 ml, then move up to 2 L.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I've actually gone with both methods. I seem to get great results with larger starters with low gravity. I just let it run on the stir plate longer. I get lots of healthy yeast much faster than stepping up. I can't say I've ever detected off flavors in any way.
Of coarse, your results might vary....
I'm on my second step of a conan starter and have a question. Here's my progression so far:
-.1 L of 1.020 wort, intermittent shaking for 3 days. Slight signs of fermentation with bubbling and wispy yeast by the end
-.4L of 1.030 wort-I've got this, plus the .1L from step 1, on the stir plate right now. I've made several starters before but never one that's behaved quite like this. First, even after 5 total days the starter still smells very fruity/citrusy, but maybe that's because of the heady topper I pitched? Secondly, I've never had a starter with so much krausen while on the stirplate (normally I get no krausen at all). The foam shows no signs of subsiding after 48 hours on the stirplate (see pic). Should I wait till it drops before moving to the next step? Should I decant or just add more wort if the container is big enough? Thanks!
-.1 L of 1.020 wort, intermittent shaking for 3 days. Slight signs of fermentation with bubbling and wispy yeast by the end
-.4L of 1.030 wort-I've got this, plus the .1L from step 1, on the stir plate right now. I've made several starters before but never one that's behaved quite like this. First, even after 5 total days the starter still smells very fruity/citrusy, but maybe that's because of the heady topper I pitched? Secondly, I've never had a starter with so much krausen while on the stirplate (normally I get no krausen at all). The foam shows no signs of subsiding after 48 hours on the stirplate (see pic). Should I wait till it drops before moving to the next step? Should I decant or just add more wort if the container is big enough? Thanks!
I'm no expert, but I say you wait till it ferments out (assuming its not due to the krausen) and just pitch the new wort on top if your container is large enough.
TNTgill
Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me if Conan would be good in a punkin' ale?
Grabbed some HT this weekend. When I asked they said it was probably 10th generation. Would it be worth while growing some up, or am I going to get poor performance and off flavors?
On a side note, maybe it was an off night, but they don't seem to be the friendliest bunch around.
On a side note, maybe it was an off night, but they don't seem to be the friendliest bunch around.
ApothecaryBrewing
Well-Known Member
John Kimmich is a nice guy, the other staff seem to be tired of fielding requests and questions from pretty much everyone. They were the least helpful last time I was home and hunting for some HT. I got the, "Look at our website, bye!" response when I asked if they knew of any places that were recently distributed to.
Luckily found some though. I think, regardless of generation, Conan is worth harvesting. The flavors it brings to the batch are worth it. My first harvest was an older generation and it only attenuated to about 72%, maybe have been my fault, but the beer was still delicious.
I am waiting to harvest from new cans until I can get some ECY Northeast yeast which is supposed to be commercial Conan. And my Starter setup is currently growing me some Kellerweiss yeast.
I'm working on a Conan Citra/Amarillo Apricot this week, and had some questions for the group.
Although I do have HT to harvest from, I wanted a pure sample and obtained some ECY29. The bottle says it's good to pitch for a 5 gallon batch, so I would estimate that to be somewhere in the range of 100-200B cells. I took 25 mL of this and put it in a 500 mL 1.040 starter. My plan is to step up to 2L at the 48 hr mark, and then 48 hrs later I should be good to pitch for a 6.5 gallon batch. I should have at least 250B cells by then, right? Yes, I'm using a stir plate.
My plan for the beer is as follows:
6.5G batch
4 1/2 lb White Wheat
6 1/2 lb Maris Otter pale malt
Mash for 90 min at 150F, batch sparge.
60 min boil
5/8 oz Magnum at 60 min (27.4 IBU)
1 oz Citra at 5 min
1 oz Citra whirlpool at 180F for 20 min
Conan yeast pitch at 66F, ferment to 1.008 if possible over 10 days
0.5 oz Amarillo dry hop for 8 days with 1 can Apricot puree
2 oz Apricot extract at kegging/bottling
Any thoughts on the grain/hop schedule, or the amount of apricot extract?
Will the lack of Caramalt hurt much? I don't really care about the head here, I just want a really drinkable smooth and fruity ale.
Although I do have HT to harvest from, I wanted a pure sample and obtained some ECY29. The bottle says it's good to pitch for a 5 gallon batch, so I would estimate that to be somewhere in the range of 100-200B cells. I took 25 mL of this and put it in a 500 mL 1.040 starter. My plan is to step up to 2L at the 48 hr mark, and then 48 hrs later I should be good to pitch for a 6.5 gallon batch. I should have at least 250B cells by then, right? Yes, I'm using a stir plate.
My plan for the beer is as follows:
6.5G batch
4 1/2 lb White Wheat
6 1/2 lb Maris Otter pale malt
Mash for 90 min at 150F, batch sparge.
60 min boil
5/8 oz Magnum at 60 min (27.4 IBU)
1 oz Citra at 5 min
1 oz Citra whirlpool at 180F for 20 min
Conan yeast pitch at 66F, ferment to 1.008 if possible over 10 days
0.5 oz Amarillo dry hop for 8 days with 1 can Apricot puree
2 oz Apricot extract at kegging/bottling
Any thoughts on the grain/hop schedule, or the amount of apricot extract?
Will the lack of Caramalt hurt much? I don't really care about the head here, I just want a really drinkable smooth and fruity ale.
I brewed my Conan Citra Apricot ale last night, finishing up around 12:30 am!
I started the process last monday using 25 mL of ECY29, and adding it to 500 mL of 1.075 wort in a flask on a stir plate.. 1.075 was due to a mistake in my math! 3 days later I stepped this up to 2 L of 1.040 (did not decant). I cold crashed it on Saturday, and decanted on Sunday. The decanted wort was 1.008. Looked like a pretty good amount of slurry, although I didn't measure it. I resuspended in 500 mL of 1.040 on the stir plate to get it going again for pitching later in the evening. Based on Brewer's Friend, I should have created somewhere around 450B cells, assuming 25B to start with. The yeast smelled pretty much like yeast does.. nothing exciting like peaches or pineapple.
Mash was 7 lbs of Maris Otter, 5 lbs of white wheat at 150 for 90 min. I ended up with 6.5 gallons of 1.052 wort for 73% efficiency.
I did 1 oz Magnum at 60 min, whirlfloc at 15, 1 oz Citra at 5, then another at flameout. I did not do a hop whirlpool because I want the apricot to be the most pronounced flavor. I cooled down to 70 and pitched my starter. I'm keeping the temp a steady 65-66F in my fermentation cooler. I have a oxygenation stone, but no oxygen. I'll grab some O2 at Lowes today and give it a blast when I get home.
I started the process last monday using 25 mL of ECY29, and adding it to 500 mL of 1.075 wort in a flask on a stir plate.. 1.075 was due to a mistake in my math! 3 days later I stepped this up to 2 L of 1.040 (did not decant). I cold crashed it on Saturday, and decanted on Sunday. The decanted wort was 1.008. Looked like a pretty good amount of slurry, although I didn't measure it. I resuspended in 500 mL of 1.040 on the stir plate to get it going again for pitching later in the evening. Based on Brewer's Friend, I should have created somewhere around 450B cells, assuming 25B to start with. The yeast smelled pretty much like yeast does.. nothing exciting like peaches or pineapple.
Mash was 7 lbs of Maris Otter, 5 lbs of white wheat at 150 for 90 min. I ended up with 6.5 gallons of 1.052 wort for 73% efficiency.
I did 1 oz Magnum at 60 min, whirlfloc at 15, 1 oz Citra at 5, then another at flameout. I did not do a hop whirlpool because I want the apricot to be the most pronounced flavor. I cooled down to 70 and pitched my starter. I'm keeping the temp a steady 65-66F in my fermentation cooler. I have a oxygenation stone, but no oxygen. I'll grab some O2 at Lowes today and give it a blast when I get home.
I would skip the apricot extract. I tried using raspberry extract before and it tasted like medicine. I would wither try really or frozen fruit. I'm not sure of the amount, but you can look that up on here.
Just saw you where using puree maybe just add more of that
IMHO, there is nothing wrong with using extracts in beers and I know for a fact that many breweries use them. Do you think they are using pounds on pounds of fresh fruit or a fraction of that amount of extract?
I used raspberry flavor in one of my first beers and it came out better than I thought (I'm not a huge fan of fruit beers - it was my friends idea). Just make sure you don't overdo it.
I used raspberry flavor in one of my first beers and it came out better than I thought (I'm not a huge fan of fruit beers - it was my friends idea). Just make sure you don't overdo it.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I used hazelnut extract once, and it basically ruined my beer. It tasted nasty! I know some breweries use extracts, and the few that I've tasted weren't that good either. At this point I will only use real fruit. The only extract I will use willingly is powdered vanilla extract, which tastes pretty good.
Just my thoughts...
Just my thoughts...
Thank you for the tips, I can see raspberry extract tasting mediciny. I have read in other threads that apricot extract used in combination with the canned apricot puree provides a good apricot punch without chemically tastes.
What I think I'll do is titrate to effect, I'll take a 1 gallon sample and just add extract until it has the optimum flavor, and then extrapolate for the remainder of the batch.
To report on how it's going:
3 days into fermentation, and the gravity went from 1.052 to 1.018. Fermentation activity is pretty slow, so I hit it with another 90 second blast of O2. This is my first beer containing a significant amount of wheat, and I was a little suprised at the color. I used 7 lbs Maris Otter Pale, and 5 lbs white wheat, and the color coming out of the BK was amber. Now just 3 days into fermentation it's a pale straw color, like a hefeweizen. Mash was at 150F, so maybe I just don't have a lot unfermentables in there. I also didn't add any crystal, so I hope that won't hurt the end product too much. Maybe I should have added 8 oz or so.
What I think I'll do is titrate to effect, I'll take a 1 gallon sample and just add extract until it has the optimum flavor, and then extrapolate for the remainder of the batch.
To report on how it's going:
3 days into fermentation, and the gravity went from 1.052 to 1.018. Fermentation activity is pretty slow, so I hit it with another 90 second blast of O2. This is my first beer containing a significant amount of wheat, and I was a little suprised at the color. I used 7 lbs Maris Otter Pale, and 5 lbs white wheat, and the color coming out of the BK was amber. Now just 3 days into fermentation it's a pale straw color, like a hefeweizen. Mash was at 150F, so maybe I just don't have a lot unfermentables in there. I also didn't add any crystal, so I hope that won't hurt the end product too much. Maybe I should have added 8 oz or so.
so you're going to pull a full gallon, do your flavoring, and then return it to the main batch? should work, but sounds like an opportunity to oxidize and/or infect the beer. i'd pull a smaller sample, count the drops it takes, then extrapolate from that.
also, if your been isn't carbonated, be aware that aroma from the extracts will be stronger once there is CO2... so tread lightly.
bad idea - you may have oxidized your beer. you should not add oxygen once fermentation has started. things you can do include increase the temps a few degrees and gently rousing the yeast, if you think that aren't in suspension.
give the beer more than 3 days to finish up. activity might have slowed as far as you can tell, but chances are good there is still plenty going on in there. stop messing with your beer... give it at least 10 days before poking it. the yeast know what to do. taking too many hydro samples = increased risk of infection.
Great tips, I had planned to bottle that test gallon separately, and not return it to the rest of the batch.
Ack! Okay then, no more O2 or gravity samples until the 10 day mark. Hopefully the yeast will use whatever O2 dissolved to get me down to 1.008.
I'm afraid to let the beer rise to 70F out of concern for fusel alcohols. Is that safe to do now that the majority of the fermentation is done? I read that Kimmich ferments HT at 68 for 3 days, and then 72 for 3 more.
Or just add a small about to the big batch and taste until the taste is good. That what I did with maple flavor in a coffee stout recipe and it seemed to work okay.
Agreed on vanilla extract. Get a good quality one and it's good. Get the generic imitation one from the supermarket and it probably won't be as good.
It's all in the amount used. Use the wrong amount and it will probably be terrible. Use the correct amount and it will be good. Just like using the fruit.
Petekiteworld
Well-Known Member
Extracts are sketchy in my opinion. First it can easily ruin your beer. Second, you are home brewing a wonderful natural beer...why add"extract" of anything to it? Just add the real thing!
You mean like malt extracts that many people use to make great beer and everyone uses to make starters? 
To each there own, but as I said many well respected craft breweries use extracts. If you don't want to, that's fine.
To each there own, but as I said many well respected craft breweries use extracts. If you don't want to, that's fine.
Petekiteworld
Well-Known Member
Haha sorry I meant the flavor additives!
I'm posting to update on the Conan citra apricot wheat recipe I did a few weeks ago (the one I oxygenated at day 3 of fermentation and nearly dumped later). I figured what the hell and did the secondary with one can of apricot puree. At 10 days on the apricots I was really unimpressed with the apricot flavor, and didn't like how tart a flavor the beer had. Maybe that's characteristic of a nearly 50% wheat. Having come this far, I primed with dextrose, and threw in 4 oz of apricot extract, then filled about a dozen bottles or so planning to flush the rest. Here's the kicker... I tasted the beer straight out of the carboy just before flushing it, and found it was great! The apricot extract made a huge difference giving it the necessary apricot punch I wanted. I would not have gone any stronger than 4 oz in 5 gallons though for this otherwise very light bodied beer. Of course, now having contaminated the carboy, I went ahead and flushed the rest.
It's okay though, I have another apricot brew on deck. This one is more of an ale with a lot more hop action- Citra, centennial, and amarilo.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I would have still bottled it myself. Especially if it tasted good. It likely would have been just fine!
What was your source on the Conan?
TyTanium
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Another homebrewer. I think he got it from someone in his club? Not sure exactly.
Johnnyhitch1
Well-Known Member
Nailed it!
Been subbed to the thread for a bit and have to post my Conan experience: (bear w me, dont know how to post recipes yet)
on 8/16 brewed a 5 gal dipa ag w a 10lb Maris otter base, 1lb each wheat malt, Vienna & carapils. 1oz columbus fwh, 1oz chinook 15 min, 1oz citra at 5, 1oz simcoe at fo & 1oz simcoe steeped at 170 for 20 min whirlpool. Added 4 oz turbinado & 10oz orange blossom honey at 5 min. OG was 1.073
Pitched Conan that I harvested from two heady cans on 7/3, started the day before with 200ml 1.020 starter & BAZINGA it went off! Fermed a little hot @ 72 (don't have a ferm chamber yet, santa swmbo knows :rockin but still had fruity smells seeping from the airlock.
Racked it last week at 16 days in primary (As said many times in the thread it does not like to floc!) SG was 1.014 & tasted amazing!
Had the balance of bitterness with solid malt body without being cloying. Eminently drinkable, flat no less! Swmbo has mooched a gallon in the past few days. Dry hopped on Sunday the 1st with 1oz simcoe & .5 oz citra from a Belgian pale ale I brewed that day. Ill bottle it this weekend, if swmbo doesn't bogart it all while I'm out!
Randomly, Netflix recommended Conan the destroyer to us (me), and after averting my eyes from grace jones we decided to name the beer CROM.
Best part, I washed the yeast after racking and now have 3 pints of conan in mason jars to use! It will be hoppy, so ill just adjust the hop sked on the next brew. Anyone use Conan in a stout? I'm intrigued by the fruity flavor in a chocolate stout.
on 8/16 brewed a 5 gal dipa ag w a 10lb Maris otter base, 1lb each wheat malt, Vienna & carapils. 1oz columbus fwh, 1oz chinook 15 min, 1oz citra at 5, 1oz simcoe at fo & 1oz simcoe steeped at 170 for 20 min whirlpool. Added 4 oz turbinado & 10oz orange blossom honey at 5 min. OG was 1.073
Pitched Conan that I harvested from two heady cans on 7/3, started the day before with 200ml 1.020 starter & BAZINGA it went off! Fermed a little hot @ 72 (don't have a ferm chamber yet, santa swmbo knows :rockin
but still had fruity smells seeping from the airlock. Racked it last week at 16 days in primary (As said many times in the thread it does not like to floc!) SG was 1.014 & tasted amazing!
Had the balance of bitterness with solid malt body without being cloying. Eminently drinkable, flat no less! Swmbo has mooched a gallon in the past few days. Dry hopped on Sunday the 1st with 1oz simcoe & .5 oz citra from a Belgian pale ale I brewed that day. Ill bottle it this weekend, if swmbo doesn't bogart it all while I'm out!Randomly, Netflix recommended Conan the destroyer to us (me), and after averting my eyes from grace jones we decided to name the beer CROM.
Best part, I washed the yeast after racking and now have 3 pints of conan in mason jars to use! It will be hoppy, so ill just adjust the hop sked on the next brew. Anyone use Conan in a stout? I'm intrigued by the fruity flavor in a chocolate stout.
