Brewing Gods V. Peers

I'm just curious. Who has improved you more as a brewer? Is it the gurus on the radio shows on The Brewing Network and Basic Brewing with their established homebrew radio stars? Or is it the low lifes such as us, the collective on forums such as HBT with our database of individual experiences.

Personally, I take whatever i can from wherever it is available.

MOD EDIT: Poll options added.

HBT wins by a landslide for me. However, it took me 15 tries to make a good batch of beer so what does that tell you.

Neither, for me it is non-radio gurus like George Fix, Greg Noonan and Ray Daniels.

For me it's here. The collective knowledge of this repository is staggering. If you spend an hour here and there REALLY reading what is in here you'll be an "expert" in no time. Granted, no amount of book worm education can make up for good old fashioned experience. However, this forum can get you very well prepared to deal with almost anything that comes up in your process. In other words, when you DO experience it, it won't be a suprise and you may even know how to handle it to a T. A radio show or TV show are great for making you think, or covering topics of interest, but you can't ever get the full picture like you can from printed word and reading about the experiences of others.

I predict HBT wins by a landslide.

But a poll taken on say amazon.com from people buying homebrew books might have the books win, a poll taken by a brewer's radio station might have the station win, a poll taken by the LHBS might have the LHBS win...

All kind of biased because the answers will be skewed to whoever's running the poll, because there will always be a higher percentage of people who swear by that method.

HBT, for me, has provided the "push" to dig deeper into the sciences of brewing rather than just mash some stuff together to make a decent beer.

Most of my jounrney has been trial and error which I find invaluable to improving the craft and the art.

You just have to drink some mistakes to endure making it better next time.

bernerbrau said:

I predict HBT wins by a landslide.

But a poll taken on say amazon.com from people buying homebrew books might have the books win, a poll taken by a brewer's radio station might have the station win, a poll taken by the LHBS might have the LHBS win...

All kind of biased because the answers will be skewed to whoever's running the poll, because there will always be a higher percentage of people who swear by that method.

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Agreed. However. It is still true to me that I can learn by the drip method on HBT. I have a low attention span, so although the radio guys talk a lot of good stuff, i just can't retain the knowledge the same, so i feel it's still a valid question.

I don't listen to internet radio, I'm usually not in the LHBS that long, and I'm too busy taking pictures of the guy with his wife in the cart to send to peopleofwalmart.com which leaves no time to ask him what his personal preference is regarding specialty malts.

It was a real mix for me. I read 6 or 7 brewing books. Then I found HBT and picked up more knowledge here. Then I heard about BN here and started listening to podcasts on the ride to and from work and picked up more there. It's a real split between the three.

Never got much from my LHBS in the way of knowledge. By the time I actually started brewing, I felt like I knew more than they did and after listening to them giving advice to other customers, I might have been right.

But shopping cart guy was INDISPENSABLE!!!

In my opinion, I've learned most from brewing books, meaning good books, not some of the jokes for sale nowdays and held in high regard by the newcomers. Noonan, Miller, Daniels etc. The old Brewing Tech. etc. But most of all from experience.

The so called "Brew Gods" are a joke IMO. Just a bunch of swell heads searching for ego infalation and a fast buck. HBT is a fun place to visit with fellow brewers, but one would have a hard time sorting out good information from the hype for a beginner.

You shoulda put "your homebrew club" and "judges comments" and "books" in there too. Ten years ago I learned a lot while in the Oregon Brew Crew. Learned from other brewers while drinking with them, learned from other judges both by judging alongside them and from their comments. Some were very helpful.

Since starting up brewing in Croatia, though, I'd have to say Brew Strong edges out HBT for me, though I've learned a lot here too.

Sudbuster said:

In my opinion, I've learned most from brewing books, meaning good books, not some of the jokes for sale nowdays and held in high regard by the newcomers. Noonan, Miller, Daniels etc. The old Brewing Tech. etc. But most of all from experience.

The so called "Brew Gods" are a joke IMO. Just a bunch of swell heads searching for ego infalation and a fast buck. HBT is a fun place to visit with fellow brewers, but one would have a hard time sorting out good information from the hype for a beginner.

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I forgot the books option. Sorry for that

I picked my LHBS.
He's the one who, more than anyone helped me to RDWHAHB, with HBT being a close second.

But I've been going to him for 12 years, and only been on this site for about 6 months.

Hbt, Ftw!!!!!

My vote goes to the forums, namely everyone here on HBT! I learned enough just by reading that I jumped in doing all-grain right from the start, I also skipped the bottling and went right to kegging. I made all my own equipment using info from HBT, and I brew some damn good beer because of the collective beer geekery found here every day!! Thanks to you all!!!

Revvy said:

Hbt, Ftw!!!!!

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Well, yeah, you WOULD say that!! Frigging serial helper!

HBT wins for me, but no other forum would come close. Debates are generally carried out respectfully, and nobody here takes themselves too seriously, even though several folks on this board are real experts on brewing.

I enjoy the beer radio shows, but as radio. It's entertainment. I hope to learn some stuff from them, but I generally listen because I like listening to people talk about beer. I own Jamil's Book, Palmer's Book. Daniels' book, and Papazian's (which got me started). When I want a book, I read a book.

Here we can have threads for beginners, threads on esoteric advanced topics, and threads on brewing trends, all in one place. Radio just doesn't have that luxury, if it wants to have listeners. We, the truly geeky, are few. Thank God we have places like this to luxuriate in it.

I've learned most of the theory stuff from the authors like Fix, Briggs, Noonan, and Daniels. That's how I like to learn... start with the background, the foundation and work my way up so I really understand it. Like in college, I didn't jump right into Entomology. I started with Cell Biology.

But HBT and other internet sources have been very helpful to me for the practical stuff... the how-to.

The radio shows can't be excluded, though. I've learned from them... up until I couldn't stand listening to TBN anymore. Always liked BBR though and learn as much as I can from there.

I vote Kai. That is what this thread was really about wasn't it?

IrregularPulse said:

I vote Kai. That is what this thread was really about wasn't it?

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Yeah, you can always tell when LGI "gets to thinkin'."

IrregularPulse said:

I vote Kai. That is what this thread was really about wasn't it?

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It's a fair cop. Society is to blame!

I still felt it was a valid question though.

I tend to learn best in conversation with others who share like interests, be it in person or virtually on an internet forum. Conversations evolve organically with a multitude of voices representing a wide range of technical proficiencies and personalities. I like that. Any hobby always runs the risk of becoming ossified with constant reference to the canon of literature (i.e Papazian, Palmer, etc.) - and while I occasionally see some snide pretentious and ego-driven comments here on HBT, it is generally pretty accomodating to trailblazing experimentation in technique and process.

That said, I owe much of my 'schooling' to the work of Fix, Briggs, Noonan et al.

I had to chose HBT. I have 7 brewing books, have listened to nearly all of the BN and BBR shows and have had extended conversations with both the man, and his wife in the shopping cart.

The reason HBT win is that it is multi dimensional instead of one way dissemination. Not only can you learn from past posts, but you can also ask questions and get nearly instant feedback.

Also, BHT wins because you get a really good look into some of the personalities of brewing. When laughing Invisible Gnome makes a post, I always read it, and basically always laugh. When Revvy posts I read it twice, because likely there is some really good information there. When Yooper posts I make sure I don't just scan through it. If Yuri posts I have flash backs of the amazing Yurt. If the Pol posts I think back to his sweet setup and self contained wort chiller. When brew Kaiser posts I know that his statements are backed up by very solid data crunching that he himself did.

I could go on, but you get the idea. I like "knowing" the personalities of HBT and having direct interactions with them.

Books plus HBT.

The beauty of these sources is the ability to reference a specific topic and get an answer rather quickly. How much detailed advice on building a mash ton can you get from podcasts and how long will it take you to find it?

Combination. I've learned a metric crapton from JZ's podcasts, even with all the BS that floats around. I've learned two metric craptons from people here, and probably a crapton and a half from various books.

So, probably mostly HBT, but it's not cut and dry at all.

LHBS, bupkis.

Also, BHT wins because you get a really good look into some of the personalities of brewing. When laughing Invisible Gnome makes a post, I always read it, and basically always laugh. When Revvy posts I read it twice, because likely there is some really good information there. When Yooper posts I make sure I don't just scan through it. If Yuri posts I have flash backs of the amazing Yurt. If the Pol posts I think back to his sweet setup and self contained wort chiller. When brew Kaiser posts I know that his statements are backed up by very solid data crunching that he himself did.

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Interesting analysis.

I wonder what kind of emotional response my posts elicit?

I vote for: Homebrew club members who make really good beer. Not saying HBT isn't useful, but when a club member describes a recipe & process and I can taste the results, that's best. One member of OBC brought three IPAs once, which re-used all of the hops from the previous batch for bittering, adding new hops for flavor and aroma. The last of the three was the best, even though IBUs were similar.

He also did a FWH and compared it to the same beer with a normal hop schedule. There wasn't any noticeable difference.

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

Well, yeah, you WOULD say that!! Frigging serial helper!

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LOL....

I meant for ME though....I learn something new on here every day...and I lurked for a couple months before I ever started brewing or even posted for that matter.

This is where I come first when I have a question...though I usually don't have to ask, because I use find the answer via search, or from pmming some of the folks who I trust the most on here. (also on the times I have posted a brewing question, someone inevitably tells me to "use the search, noob." So I find it's better to ask privately. But I get a heck of a lot out of this place, that's why I answer questions all the time...To give back for all that I have gotten.

flyangler18 said:

Interesting analysis.

I wonder what kind of emotional response my posts elicit?

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I normally get too scared from the picture to the left, and run away scared and crying...

HBT for me. I do enjoy listening to the podcasts though and they have helped quite a bit too. Also, I own a few books and they are usually a good reference and full of info.

HBT is probably best at cutting edge info, and anything you could want to know about brewing is answered here, sometimes many times.

I think I have gained the most real knowledge from books. However, after that this forum provides a very large amount of practical knowledge and very relevant scientific work. The shows are fun to listen to but I don't think I have ever gotten anything really useful out of them. I like to listen, but for me it is like going on a brewery tour. Yeah it is entertaining, but I never feel like I am a better brewer because I went on it.

There is a lot of bunk info and conjecture on the internet, but it is easy to spot and make my own decisions about what to try and what not to.

+ a million for HBT. I Brewed extract w/ specialty grains for a few years armed only with the experience of 1 brew day with another extract brewer and a old, ragged copy of Papazian. Always wanted to jump into AG, but was too scared without any experienced guidance available. I didn't even have an LHBS to turn to, never mind a club or peers. Thanks to HBT I've been able to pull off a few DIY projects without much headache, find the best prices/service for ingredients and equipment and have a dozen AG batches under my belt. As others have said, the interactiveness and friendly attitude of HBTers is invaluable to me. I do keep a few books around, and enjoy listening to BBR (I get so much more out of Kai's posts now that I hear them in his accent ), but this is my go-to when I have questions or concerns. Thanks everyone.

JuanKenobi said:

+ a million for HBT. I Brewed extract w/ specialty grains for a few years armed only with the experience of 1 brew day with another extract brewer and a old, ragged copy of Papazian. Always wanted to jump into AG, but was too scared without any experienced guidance available. I didn't even have an LHBS to turn to, never mind a club or peers. Thanks to HBT I've been able to pull off a few DIY projects without much headache, find the best prices/service for ingredients and equipment and have a dozen AG batches under my belt. As others have said, the interactiveness and friendly attitude of HBTers is invaluable to me. I do keep a few books around, and enjoy listening to BBR (I get so much more out of Kai's posts now that I hear them in his accent ), but this is my go-to when I have questions or concerns. Thanks everyone.

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I think this is the crux of the matter. Interaction. Of course we can all learn from the pod casts, but HBT is the place for resource. We can search the forum, ask direct questions and if we are dilligent, we can sort the good advice from the bad.....And it all happens at a pace that we can choose for ourselves. This could mean casual learning, or quick info during a brew day. HBT rocks in both those aspects.

Also, let me say that although I do find a ton of good info here, there are times where advice is way too advanced to be much use to me, or there are many different ways to things, or different philosophies to be considered. Sometimes there is no right answer, but the discussion about the topic can help someone choose a method that they like, or would work for them.

There's no option for "my brain".

A little from all of the above.Mostly from reading though.It's great hearing about others experiences,but you just have to find out what works for you.

I would like an option for books.

Well, Basic Brewing Radio was really cool to me for a while, but I do think I've learned more from HBT now that I'm past noob stage. I still listen to BBR though.

HBT hands down. Folks like Kai are the reason I came here and coughed up for a membership. There's real innovation going on here. The 'casts are good entertainment, but they're just that. Brewing entertainment. I can't honestly say I've learned something from BN or BBR I didn't already know.

The best things I've gotten from here and BN are ideas for DIY stuff since I'm not handy (I generally choose not to DIY but there are no commercial corny keg washing stations, for example). The brewing information in either place is rarely if ever novel, although some people including Kaiser do a great job of distilling existing technical information and presenting it for the homebrewer.

Chilling beer via ambient air (no chill), malt conditioning, and batch sparging were all performed by commercial breweries long before modern homebrewers "discovered" them.

How to Brew has no novel information on brewing water, but Palmer did a lot to explain it to a non-technical audience and provided a very useful tool for calculations (which members here have improved upon).

Fix and Noonan discussed efficiency losses in conversion vs lautering but Kaiser provided an explanation and a tool that has been more useful to homebrewers than those authors' texts.