Wheat Wine - Comments needed

Back at the beginning of September I stopped in at the Rogue Brewery in Newport and sampled some of their wheat wine. As of yet it is not on the website so I have no specs to go from.


I contacted one of the brewers at Rogue who suggested I check with Tom Fries on his recipe which is apparently “pretty darn tooting”.


He suggested the following:


Batch Size (Gal): 3.50 Wort Size (Gal): 3.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.50
Anticipated OG: 1.101 Plato: 24.0
Anticipated SRM: 9.2
Anticipated IBU: 85.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
44.4 6.00 lbs. Wheat Malt America 1.038 2
48.1 6.50 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
7.4 1.00 lbs. Honey Malt Canada 1.030 18


Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.25 oz. Galena Pellet 13.00 68.8 60 min.
1.00 oz. Willamette Whole 5.00 14.8 30 min.
0.50 oz. Willamette Whole 5.00 1.9 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 13.50
Water Qts: 17.95 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 4.49 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.33 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 150 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 170 Time: 15
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 45




Comments on original recipe? I'm thinking about subbing unmalted wheat and doing a 45 minute to hour long protein rest at 120. Need to build that steam manifold.


It'll likely be a couple weeks before I can brew this but I'm pretty committed to doing so. I welcome any comments or suggestions.

You'll get more flavor from the malted wheat than flaked wheat. Since this is a beverage that's all about the wheat, I wouldn't reduce the wheat character by switching to flaked wheat.

mkling said:

You'll get more flavor from the malted wheat than flaked wheat. Since this is a beverage that's all about the wheat, I wouldn't reduce the wheat character by switching to flaked wheat.

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I'll preface this reply with an apology for sounding like an arrogant ass. It's been a long day (make that month) and, frankly, I'm an arrogant ass.:cross:

I said unmalted wheat (whole kernels which will be crushed on brewday), not flaked wheat. I have an adjustable stone flour mill which I'll run the wheat grist through.

My understanding is this:
Unmalted wheat gives more flavor than malted wheat but can be a bit of a bastard to brew with because unmalted wheat lacks diastatic power. Having enough barley in the mix should provide the diastatic enzymes to convert the starches in both the barley and the unmalted wheat into fermentable sugars. A protein rest is needed with unmalted wheat - more so than with malted wheat. The length of the protein rest is a compromise - longer and you get a clearer, more workable mash - shorter and you get more flavor but a cloudier, stickier mash. I'll choose on brewday somewhere between 45 and 60 minutes.

Anyone who's brewed with or read up on unmalted wheat want to comment?

Still looking for comments on the general recipe as well. Will be attempting this one of the next couple weekends.

curtis97322 said:

I said unmalted wheat (whole kernels which will be crushed on brewday), not flaked wheat. I have an adjustable stone flour mill which I'll run the wheat grist through.

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Unmalted wheat and flaked wheat are going to be nearly indistinguishable as far as flavor contributions go in beer. The flaked wheat is just whole kernels of unmalted wheat that have been put through hot rollers. The only great benefit this has for brewers is that it prevents you from have to do a cereal mash before and separate from your usual brewing mash.

Most brewers use small amounts of flaked or unmalted wheat to help with head retention. The only beer that I know of that is typically brewed with large proportions of flaked or unmalted wheat is a Belgian Witbier. If you like the idea of a witbier brought up to imperial strength, without the spices or Belgian yeast and an English yeast, then go for it and enjoy.

You're basing your recipe upon Rogue's and Tom Fries. They suggested you go with wheat malt. That's certainly what I would do. I stand by my previous comment that I think you'll get better flavor out of malted than unmalted wheat -- but I'd rather have a wheatwine that is like a souped up weizen than a souped up wit. But hey, it's your beer. Either way, let us know how it turns out.