Kolsch yeast and a question

Last Friday I brewed my first Kolsch with my 2nd starter ever. When I checked on it the next morning the lid to my fermenter was bulging like a teenagers huge zit and the airlock was full of krausen and hissing at me like a pissed off Gila Monster. I bet if I would have let it go another hour I would have painted the ceiling. I quickly (thanks to this forum educating me) replaced the airlock with a blow off tube and it happily released its pressure. Heck, there is still some activity today a full week later.

I read another poster that said they use a blow off tube for the first week and then a airlock after. After this I may take the same approach.

My question(s), Is it the strain of yeast used/style of beer that made this thing so ferocious and are there other strains or styles to watch carefully? Could it have been my starter? I pitched after following the 2cups water + 1/2cup DME + smack pack starter after I decanted it so I didn't think it was too much, into a 6.5gal plastic fermenter.

I wonder if you didn't let the fermentation temp get a little to warm, you have to be carfull to ferment cool with a kolsch......it is a big red flag for me when i read a post about wild fermenation and tons of blow off........usually that means high temps.

Also, what kolsch yeast did you use. I recently did a white labs 029 based kolsch that turned out great below 65 degrees.

Wyeast Kolsch will blow off WHEN YOUR NOT LOOKING!! I fermented cool (55-58) and the Krausen was big, like four to five inched. Stayed that way for about a day, then BLAM, blew off like crazy. Rigged the blowoff tube, things settled down, replaced the airlock, and moved the carboy around a little. BLAM! The damn thing blew off again. Happened once more. No infection, the Kolsch is great, but very funny yeast. Doesnt like to be moved I guess.

I've got the Wyeast Kolsch going right now, in the primary for 2 weeks tomorrow, and it is still bubbling away like crazy. Did a starter, got it going in under 12 hours, bubbled slow for the first day, and then went off like mad. There wasn't bubbles in the blow off tube, there was a staedy stream of air. Did this for another 2 or 3 days, and is now settled down to a bubble every 5 to 10 seconds, and still has a huge foamy krauzen on top. It's going to be at least another week before I will be transfering this one to clear. And this is fermenting at 55-57 degrees.

I expect a blowoff whenever I ferment, and especially with a starter. Kolsch is usually pretty docile compared to 1056 or other more flocculent strains, but I have had some large krausens with it. You must have made them super happy...so keep on doing whatever it is you're doing!

I am thinking now I may have it sitting at a little too warm of temperature. I have it at 66 degrees or so. Should I bring it down way lower? Some here are saying 50's for this style. I guess I didn't see that recomendation when I started it. Please advise.

It is the Wyeast Kolsch yeast I used.

CrAzYmOuSe said:

own way lower? Some here are saying 50's for this style. I guess I didn't see that recomendation when I started it. Please advise.

It is the Wyeast Kolsch yeast I used.

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Kolsch at around 58 will be very clean and lager-like. Warmer (in the sixties) and it will be a little fruity, and a bit tart. YMMV


And the Kolsch strains from my experience are ANYTHING but well behaved IMO.
They take along time to drop clear (3 1/2 weeks at 40) and the leftover foam from the Krausen never completely fell away.

Potter1 said:

Kolsch at around 58 will be very clean and lager-like. Warmer (in the sixties) and it will be a little fruity, and a bit tart. YMMV

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Are you talking about the White Labs or Wyeast strains?

I brewed two Kolsch's back to back and pitched the second batch on the previous yeast cake. Needed a blowoff for the second.

Interestingly, for both beers it took 3-4 weeks for the Krausen to fall.
EDIT: Fermented at 58F.
Anyone else had Krausen's that lasted this long with the Kolsch yeast??? Mine was WYeast btw.

phasedweasel said:

Are you talking about the White Labs or Wyeast strains?

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Wyeast. I've never used the White Labs Kolsch

Interestingly, the White Labs 029 Kolsch yeast is designed for higher temps (65ish) unlike the Wyeast. I used it once for my only kolsch with good results - no strange krausen behaviors. Has anyone used both and come away with a strong opinion on which is better? Or has anyone fermented the White Labs below 62 (which they say not to do)?

Thanks

Ichthy said:

I brewed two Kolsch's back to back and pitched the second batch on the previous yeast cake. Needed a blowoff for the second.

Interestingly, for both beers it took 3-4 weeks for the Krausen to fall.
EDIT: Fermented at 58F.
Anyone else had Krausen's that lasted this long with the Kolsch yeast??? Mine was WYeast btw.

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mine is entering the third weekend with no signs of falling for at least another week.

lurker18 said:

mine is entering the third weekend with no signs of falling for at least another week.

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Interesting. So, I have prescribed to the 3-4 week in primary that a lot of people here use as a benchmark. If this yeast type doesn't drop krausen for 3-4 weeks as many say, would it be advantageous to let it sit for 5-6 weeks or more to help clean up the by products as a normal 3-4 week fermentation is said to do?

Yes watching the hydrometer is key but what have others experienced with this?

Potter1 said:

Kolsch at around 58 will be very clean and lager-like. Warmer (in the sixties) and it will be a little fruity, and a bit tart. YMMV


And the Kolsch strains from my experience are ANYTHING but well behaved IMO.
They take along time to drop clear (3 1/2 weeks at 40) and the leftover foam from the Krausen never completely fell away.

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I disagree....I use White Labs Kolsch yeast as my house strain. I have brewed APA'S, Brown's, and Kolsch's withit and never have any problems with it dropping clear.

Actually 3 weeks in primary, and then 3 days of cold crashing gets me perfectly clear beer and I don't even use irish mosh or anything.

I also, never have even been close to needing a blow off tube. However, I ferment mid 60's. 68 is the highest I have gone and I also have never had any off flavors from the yeast.

daveooph131 said:

I disagree....I use White Labs Kolsch yeast as my house strain.

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Ahhh... I was referring to the Wyeast strain. They behave very different from what I hear.

CrAzYmOuSe said:

Interesting. So, I have prescribed to the 3-4 week in primary that a lot of people here use as a benchmark. If this yeast type doesn't drop krausen for 3-4 weeks as many say, would it be advantageous to let it sit for 5-6 weeks or more to help clean up the by products as a normal 3-4 week fermentation is said to do?

Yes watching the hydrometer is key but what have others experienced with this?

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After my Krausen fell, I cold crashed for a week and ended up with super clear beer and didn't notice any negative effects from extended time on the cake.

I suspect if you were to ferment in the mid-60's the krausen may fall a little faster.

Potter1 said:

Kolsch at around 58 will be very clean and lager-like. Warmer (in the sixties) and it will be a little fruity, and a bit tart. YMMV


And the Kolsch strains from my experience are ANYTHING but well behaved IMO.
They take along time to drop clear (3 1/2 weeks at 40) and the leftover foam from the Krausen never completely fell away.

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I brewed Death by Dunkel fermented at 56-58 and opened the fermenter after 4 weeks to find an inch of fatty Krausen on top. Never saw this before. I siphoned the beer to a keg and after 3 weeks of conditioning (sat in the cellar in the high 40s) the beer has an alcohol bite to it. It is a strong beer This yeast is interesting.

ok, so I brought my temp down to about 58ish, I might go lower tomorrow. I think this will turn out OK. I will try this again soon to see what happens with this strain in a more tightly controlled environment.

Wyeast Kolsch 2565 is my house lager-style yeast, and it's psycho!!!!

I just use a piece of tin foil over 5 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy when I ferment with it, and I have to lay down a towel too.

I re-used some of it this weekend and my stir starter krausen came up and out the top of the flask w/in 12-hours.

On to it's actual performance. I can't truly lager so I have had a difficult time matching the crisp finish of lagers, but the yeast does a great job of showcasing the grain bill with some big malty flavor.

It also floccs out like garbage, so either find a way to filter, cold crash, something, or carefully decant when you pour and maybe the residual yeast will not be too cloudy.

I just checked mine and it's generating some pretty good heat. In a 57°F cabinet I'm fermenting at 61°F.

I'm able to keep this thing around 57ish. I think I'll check it in 4 weeks and if it is suspect, ill let it sit longer. This thing is a monster! I will definitely use this yeast again in hopes to tame it. I think this kind of thing is what makes this hobby fun.

I've used the White labs version. It was very well behaved at 66 degrees and yielded a very clean flavor. -maybe too clean for me. Next time, I'ma try the wyeast!

I bottled a Kolsch today that was fermented with the Wyeast at 56 degrees. It sat for 3.5 weeks. Slow to start, but then seemed fine. When I cracked the lid to bottle, it still had a krausen, but the FG was dead on. The funny thing is that a couple weeks ago I bottled a batch of Kolsch that I fermented with the White Labs Kolsch strain. No krausen and acted like any other ale strain. I fermented that one at 66-68 degrees. It is amazing how vastly different these two strains are. I won't know for sure for a few weeks which one tastes better, but judging from the samples I took, right now the Wyeast is way ahead in the flavor department.

I have used both Wyeast and White Labs. Wyeast is better for fermenting at lower temps and takes a bit longer to settle out. White Labs can handle higher temps, mid to higher 60's without getting the fruity esters.

I have had a massive blow off with the White Labs yeast, but also docile (so to speak) fermentations as well. I think the main difference was the amount of unfermenatble sugars that existed in the blow off version, as I mashed at a higher temp (153). The latest version, which is actually on day 3 of fermenting right now, I did a 60 minute rest at 144, and a 30 minute rest at 158. Should have a much higher proportion of fermentables and was chugging away within 3 hours (with a starter).

One other time that I almost had a blow off was when I did a partial mash. The only consistent thing I can think of is the amount of non-fermentable sugars in the batches that went, or almost went, to blow-off stage.

One other thing, relating to a question on keeping on primary or moving if there still is Krausen....

I bought a Kolsch book to really understand how to brew the style. One thing the author talked quite a bit about was moving the beer to a secondary even while hgiher Plato was present, and krausen, to finish fermenting. One of the authors main goals was clarity.

I am a big fan of leaving beer on the primary for 2 weeks or longer, often going directly to keg after 4 weeks on the primary. For Kolsch, since clarity and conditioning do come into play, I usually go 2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks in secondary, cold crash in keg with gelatin and let sit for 2 more weeks.

That is just what I do and the beers turn out VERY clear and very smooth. the extra conditioning takes care of most sulphers from the White Labs yeast.

Cheers!

I made a starter which took off at room temp, but my current batch is uber slow to start. I may do an extended primary then after reading this thread. 2-3 weeks in primary, then secondary/cold crash with gelatin.

petep1980 said:

I made a starter which took off at room temp, but my current batch is uber slow to start. I may do an extended primary then after reading this thread. 2-3 weeks in primary, then secondary/cold crash with gelatin.

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What yeast are you using?? Also, are you using an Ale Pail or carboy? The reason I ask is that sometimes the fermentation is going a lot better than you think, but the White Labs yeast sometimes puts out less Co2 than other ale yeasts....at least in my experience. The batch I have fermenting now is spinning around like crazy (glass carboy) inside, but not throwing out excessive C02 like other recent ales. Those ales used 1056, 3056 and S-04 and were blowing out massive C02 amounts.

In my opinion, almost all Kolsch beers, especially using White Labs yeast, will benefit from 2-3 weeks of lagering/cold conditioning after 4 weeks of primary and/or secondary conditioning at recomended temps. It just cleans up the beer more, which makes sense, since there are less adjuncts and hops to mask anything. Really is like a psuedo pils.

I used the wyeast one. I am cold though, like 57°F. Last time I used it I was around 1.020 after 2 days, this time 1.040. I am a little higher gravity though. I'll just let it plug away for awhile.

petep1980 said:

I used the wyeast one. I am cold though, like 57°F. Last time I used it I was around 1.020 after 2 days, this time 1.040. I am a little higher gravity though. I'll just let it plug away for awhile.

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It does seem like that one takes a bit longer. I usually start at 1.050-.053, and I think that the Wyeast took about 10 days to really get down there, usually 1.010 or so. Your temps should be spot on, if I recall. I use the WLP029 mainly...

With my temps using the Wyeast staying around 66ish for a week then dropping it to 57, should I plan on having some off flavors? Does it matter that I am low now if it was higher early on?

I am definitely trying this one again with better control. Brew and learn I guess. I am keeping good notes so we will see what happens.

CrAzYmOuSe said:

With my temps using the Wyeast staying around 66ish for a week then dropping it to 57, should I plan on having some off flavors? Does it matter that I am low now if it was higher early on?

I am definitely trying this one again with better control. Brew and learn I guess. I am keeping good notes so we will see what happens.

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You will be fine. Almost all the fermentation will be done when at 66 so not much flavors will be contributed by fermentation at 57.

Thanks to the laws of exponential growth and decay I was able to calculate my O-fest will be at 1.016 after 10 days. Damn that's sluggish. But for those who use wyeast kolsch you should probably expect the same at 57°F.

My fermentation @ 57°F is slowing down too. I'm at 1.032 after 5 days. Incredibly I can predict my fermentation will halt @ 1.021 after 20 days considering the current rates of change.

I'm suprised you guys are having slow fermentation with the Wyeast. I fermented mine at 55-57 and it fully fermented in about a week.

I even made a stir plate starter and re-used yeast. I think my issue was the starter krausen got so big I brewed a day early to avoid a mess. I usually have my starter @ 36 hours on the stir plate, this one was under 24.

I brew Kolsch more than any other ale. I no longer use the Wyeast German or Kolsch yeasts. They are rated as "Low Flocculation", and they just make a mess in the head space of the carboy. Kolsch needs to be clear, so it takes a long time for things to settle out. The White Labs yeast is rated as "Medium Flocculation" and it clears up quickly and handles the lower fermentation temperature without any under attenuation. If you want some of the fruitiness (yes, I know it's not to type), use more Spalt hops at flavoring and aroma times instead of increasing the ferm temp.

This was very informational for me, since I just bought the Wyeast Kolsch today. My house is usually kept around 64-65, but I'm going to ferment in my crawl space in the basement on the concrete, so I should be okay? I don't think it's going to get anywhere near 55-58 degrees, probably more like 60-63.

Also, I guess I should run out and buy a blowoff hose?

thesink said:

This was very informational for me, since I just bought the Wyeast Kolsch today. My house is usually kept around 64-65, but I'm going to ferment in my crawl space in the basement on the concrete, so I should be okay? I don't think it's going to get anywhere near 55-58 degrees, probably more like 60-63.

Also, I guess I should run out and buy a blowoff hose?

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Fermenting a Kolsch at 60-63 should be fine. Move to a secondary after and drop temp down into the 40's to cold crash and it should come out fine.

Obelisk said:

I brew Kolsch more than any other ale. I no longer use the Wyeast German or Kolsch yeasts. They are rated as "Low Flocculation", and they just make a mess in the head space of the carboy. Kolsch needs to be clear, so it takes a long time for things to settle out. The White Labs yeast is rated as "Medium Flocculation" and it clears up quickly and handles the lower fermentation temperature without any under attenuation. If you want some of the fruitiness (yes, I know it's not to type), use more Spalt hops at flavoring and aroma times instead of increasing the ferm temp.

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I agree with you on this %100. Although WLP029 isn't documented by white labs to ferment well cool, I definetly thing 60-63 is the sweet spot for this yeast. 65+ can give excessive fruitiness.

I also enjoy brewing and drinking kolsch, I keep tweeking my recipe but now I think I am going to go with %100 pilsen malt and tweek my flavors with the hops. I am planning one with argentine cascades and willamete.....we'll see how that ends up.

BrianTheBrewer said:

Fermenting a Kolsch at 60-63 should be fine. Move to a secondary after and drop temp down into the 40's to cold crash and it should come out fine.

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Good to know, thanks! I'll probably run a fan into the crawl space just to try and cool it down.

Cold crashing....I'm not familiar with that. Time to read up! Not sure how I'll do that, but it is getting into the 30s - 40s here, so maybe just set it in the garage?

Doing my first Kolsch, the starter is going right now with the real wort from yesterday's brewday. I was confused about this too since they say 65-68 for this yeast but I have read that the low 60s is good.

I will be shooting for 61 I think.

humann_brewing said:

I will be shooting for 61 I think.

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You are a smart man. Make a big starter and ferment cool, after the bulk of the fermentation has completed it may be a good idea to warm it up slightly to encourage further attenuation if you like.

permo said:

You are a smart man. Make a big starter and ferment cool, after the bulk of the fermentation has completed it may be a good idea to warm it up slightly to encourage further attenuation if you like.

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yep, I just hope the yeast is still good, I was getting close to the "best before" date, "fingers crossed"