Newbie to liquid yeast - Wyeast questions

Hi,

I'm getting ready to use liquid yeast for the first time. I have a Belgian Trappist Ale kit, which I upgraded to include Wyeast 3787 (Trappist High Gravity). The kit says the OG should be 1.053.

The instructions say to activate the Wyeast 1-2 days before I brew. The Wyeast itself says to allow at least 3 hours at room temperature after I smack the pack. The Wyeast website says to refrigerate the yeast if I'm not using it right away. It's in the refrigerator right now.

So, 1-2 days before I brew, do I let the pack warm to room temperature, smack it, let it sit out for three hours or so to make sure the pack swells, put it back into the refrigerator until brew day, then take it out and give it a few hours to return to room temperature before I pitch it?

Which brings up my other question, how big a deal is it if I just pitch from the packet and don't create a starter? In my "How To Brew" book, it recommends 50-110 billion yeast cells for a wort gravity less than 1.055. The Wyeast packet claims to already contain 100 billion cells. Based on the instructions in my book, creating a starter sounds a little complicated, and I'm not sure if I'm ready to take that step yet. On the other hand, I obviously don't want to mess up my beer!

Thanks, as always, for the great help!

The 100 billion cell claim is a little misleading. Wyeast packs contain ~100 billion cells when they leave the factory, you lose yeast cells every day as it gets older. You can use this calculator to see how much yeast you have left by entering the date of production off the wyeast pack. You'll then see the viability, the percentage of living yeast cells remaining. It will also spit out how many you need for your batch and give you starter making information.

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

You're more than likely going to underpitch and not have enough yeast for optimal fermentation, but you'll have to calculate that out and decide. I would almost always recommend a starter and they're not difficult so it might be something to get into sooner rather than later.

As far as smacking the pack, you want to do that procedure on brew day, don't put it back in the fridge.

I mostly use wyeast and I just activate it when I start my brew day. No need to let it go 2-3 days. If in doubt follow the directions from that manufacture since its their product and they know. For 1.053 og you probably don't need a starter, but it never hurts unless you way over pitch.

I set mine out the night before brew day then smack it 3-4 hours before brewing.

I usually set it out the morning of my brew and then smack it before I begin. I have yet to have a problem with fermentation or hitting FG.

As for starters, I have yet to do them and have not had a problem...the highest gravity i have pitched was 1.072 and the beer came out great. IMO, I would not any higher than that without a starter or an additional wyeast packet.

This is interesting because I just did two batches with wyeast and I smacked them 3 full days before and left them at 70 degrees. (I had other reasons for doing this as my kits sat in UPS limbo for a full 10 days before getting to me and before I brewed I wanted to make sure they were good so I did it early) I am telling you I never have had beer ferment so rapidly, indicating to me that it works and a starter is not needed. I did Northern's Bavarian Wheat and The Big Honkin Stout. I posted in another forum that the Wheat went so fast it blew the airlock off and sprayed beer to the ceiling and on the big screen tv in my basement! I sure as heck didn't need a starter there. I have done it the 2-4 hours before way and it worked but I think from now on I will just do it the day before not three days. Right now, they are both pretty close to FG and I brewed on Monday 01/07/13.

I would be cautious over being happy about fast fermentation. Often times the conditions that allow such fast fermentation, high ferm temperatures, can cause esters and the formation of fusel alcohols, which can lead to hangovers. Another factor that plays a vital role in blowoffs is the protein content of your wort, hence why your wheat went to the ceiling, and doesn't necessarily mean you didn't need a starter, although you may not have, I just wouldn't use a blowoff as a sign that you had enough yeast. You could have underpitched, fermented hot, and had a high protein beer and wound up with a fast fermentation with huge blowoff. But it will have esters and fruity flavors. Some styles call for that, others don't, that's why you have to adapt to every recipe.

Fermentation experts, award-winning homebrewers, authors of books on brewing, and commercial breweries recommend certain yeast pitching rates for a reason. Usually you need a starter to hit the pitching rates they suggest, which are 0.75 million to 1 million cells per millilitre per degree Plato for ales, and at least 50% more for lagers. If you can underpitch and consistently get scores of 40 or better from certified beer judges, you're on the right track. Otherwise...listen to the pros.

I've only been brewing beer for 1 1/2 years but have mostly used Wyeast & w/ very good success.
I usually smack the pack the AM of brewing and sit it on top of the fridge in the kitchen(warmer).
By the time I'm ready to pitch is is very swollen & ready. Just dip the top of the pack in Starsan & your scissors. I pour into my carboy (BB) using a small funnel. Make sure you get a the clunks, too.

If you are using liquid yeast then you should be making a starter for any beer over 1.030 OG.

Plain and simple........best practice=best beer

If you are not going to make a starter then follow Wyeast's directions here. I do, however, agree with those that say you should make a starter. It's not difficult at all. You can use this calculator and this pictorial. Notice it says the stir plate is optional, so don't worry about that. Also, you don't need a flask. Any sanitized container that can hold the volume you need will work. Just remember that old plastic with scratches may harbor bacteria or other nasty things you don't want in your starter.

Using that calculator, you'll see that even if your yeast was packaged today, a 1 liter starter would still be recommended for your 1.053 wort. I have made some decent beer by pitching straight from the package with no starter in a medium gravity wort like yours, but this was in beer that was heavy in hop and/or malt flavor. To an extent, you can mask off flavors from under pitching in hop heavy or malt heavy beers. Belgians and light beers are a different story. Off flavors from the yeast will be much more pronounced. The worst beer I ever made was a Belgian Tripel that I underpitched. The flavor of Belgian beers depend mostly on the yeast. You can get away with higher fermentation temperatures using a Belgian strain, but I would still want to pitch the proper amount of yeast.

I usually just let it warm up for an hour or so and pitch it into a starter. I don't even bother breaking the nutrient pouch anymore. If the pack is fairly fresh and you know it's good, smacking the pack and letting it swell is kind of a waste of time. It's just there to give you that warm fuzzy of knowing the yeast is viable before you pitch it.

theveganbrewer said:

I would be cautious over being happy about fast fermentation. Often times the conditions that allow such fast fermentation, high ferm temperatures, can cause esters and the formation of fusel alcohols, which can lead to hangovers. Another factor that plays a vital role in blowoffs is the protein content of your wort, hence why your wheat went to the ceiling, and doesn't necessarily mean you didn't need a starter, although you may not have, I just wouldn't use a blowoff as a sign that you had enough yeast. You could have underpitched, fermented hot, and had a high protein beer and wound up with a fast fermentation with huge blowoff. But it will have esters and fruity flavors. Some styles call for that, others don't, that's why you have to adapt to every recipe.

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I'm sorry, My post wasn't to suggest that I had done a scientific analysis of all the reason my yeast was going crazy, or that that was the best case. It was simply an observation. That having been said, The specific gravities for both beers have reached 1.020 and I brewed on Monday. Pretty sure I didn't under pitch. To me doing a starter might be good insurance, but its has never been necessary in any of the beers I have done (I know tell me that for some beers you have to, great, do it). Yep, not that I am suggesting you do this, but I have simply dumped dry yeast in the beer. No problems. I guess my main thoughts on Wyeast is that it sort of has a starter built in and I will take advantage (AND USE A BLOW OFF IN THE FUTURE). By slapping it a day or so early I seemed to ferment better than it ever had in the past for me. I don't think that is a coincidence.

Wyeast most definitely does NOT have a starter built in. The inner nutrient pouch just gives the yeast cells a wake up call, and if/when the pack swells you know it's got some viable yeast. This doesn't get the yeast replicating in any way.

I don't think anywhere on this site you will find anyone saying starters are necessary to make beer. Just that if you want your beer to be the best it can be, pitching the proper amount of cells for the OG/Volume of your wort is essential.

To that end a starter is less "insurance" and much more of technique, similar to mashing and hopping. When all the various technical aspects of brewing come together, you tend to get a great beer. I just can't see the point of making the effort in all the other areas and intentionally coming up short in the yeast department.

1972Buick455 said:

I'm sorry, My post wasn't to suggest that I had done a scientific analysis of all the reason my yeast was going crazy, or that that was the best case. It was simply an observation. That having been said, The specific gravities for both beers have reached 1.020 and I brewed on Monday. Pretty sure I didn't under pitch. To me doing a starter might be good insurance, but its has never been necessary in any of the beers I have done (I know tell me that for some beers you have to, great, do it). Yep, not that I am suggesting you do this, but I have simply dumped dry yeast in the beer. No problems. I guess my main thoughts on Wyeast is that it sort of has a starter built in and I will take advantage (AND USE A BLOW OFF IN THE FUTURE). By slapping it a day or so early I seemed to ferment better than it ever had in the past for me. I don't think that is a coincidence.

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The problem is yeast and fermentation are scientific. Scientists and commercial breweries have done years, even decades of research on it. I posted earlier that it seemed to ferment better to you either because of fermentation temperature or protein content of your recipe, not necessarily because of how you prepare the yeast.

I'm also pretty sure you have not reached final gravity at 1.020, you might be stalled there like thousands of other brewer's (search google for "stuck at 1.020"), or your yeast might still be working. At 1.020 you are not getting even the minimum attenuation for your yeast, dry or liquid. Your wheat should be down around 1.010 – 1.014.

Using a starter isn't necessary, but for any beer you don't have enough yeast for, using a starter to pitch the correct amount of cells is the best option and will yield the best results. If you don't do it, your beer will not be as good as it could be. It's up to the brewer to decide whether the sacrifice in quality is worth saving a little more work by making a starter.

Thanks all. Just the answers I was looking for! Cheers

i dont what the hell a starter is and dont want to bother.
what does "smacing the pack" mean?
also, wouldnt pitching two vials or packets typically be good enough if you want to skip the starter?

NewJersey said:

i dont what the hell a starter is and dont want to bother.
what does "smacing the pack" mean?
also, wouldnt pitching two vials or packets typically be good enough if you want to skip the starter?

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1. That's too bad.
2. Means exactly what it says
3. Sure, if you want to spend $16 on yeast.

Fast fermentation has a lot to do with the viability of the yeast not the cell count. Those calculators online are useful tools but are no means the rule. Over pitching causes no problems at all, if its within reason. Small starters, even for ales is a good process step for quality beer making.