Recipe Critique: Rosemary Saison

I'm trying to plan one of a few recipes for my wedding. This is a rosemary saison with rosemary from my fiancee's mom's garden. She sent over a huge stock of them, but I have no idea how much is too much. Additionally, I wanted to get the slightest hint of honey, so there's some honey malt in. Additionally, I like the idea of the spiciness from rye, so that's in there too. I went with Saison III after doing a tasting at White Labs.

Recipe Specifications
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Boil Size: 6.72 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 7.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 25.5 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 83.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 85.7 %
1 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 9.5 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.8 %
0.50 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 4 20.2 IBUs
0.26 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 5 -
0.50 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 6 7.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 0.0 m Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison III (White Labs #WLP585) Yeast 8 -
3.15 oz Rosemary (Secondary 7.0 days) Herb 9 -


I'll be mashing at 148 for 60 minutes. I'm looking for all around comments: grainbill type/weight, hops (went with Falconer's Flight because I want that Citra/Sorachi Ace combo and I have a pound of it), and where to put the rosemary/how much.

Thanks!

Make sure you smash the hell out of the rosemary for secondary. You might even look at making a tea out of it.

Keep us posted on how this tastes. I just had a Lost Abbey beer with rosemary and it was way tasty. It was a darker beer.

lunshbox said:

Make sure you smash the hell out of the rosemary for secondary. You might even look at making a tea out of it.

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I was going to cover the rosemary in water and boil it to sanitize, then pour the entire thing in secondary.

SavoryChef said:

Keep us posted on how this tastes. I just had a Lost Abbey beer with rosemary and it was way tasty. It was a darker beer.

Click to expand...

Will do, I actually reworked the recipe yesterday and came up with the following:

Boil Size: 6.72 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 11.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.1 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs 14.4 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.0 %
2 lbs 4.8 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs 2.4 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 3 10.0 %
1 lbs 2.4 oz Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 4 10.0 %
0.50 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 5 19.6 IBUs
0.26 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 6 -
0.50 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 10.0 Hop 7 7.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Falconer's Flight [11.40 %] - Boil 0.0 m Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Saison III (White Labs #WLP585) Yeast 9 -
3.15 oz Rosemary (Secondary 7.0 days) Herb 10 -



Thoughts?

I like what I see.

3 oz seems like a whole, whole, whole lot to me. Do you have draft at home? Or a growler fill pub or brewery you're friendly with? Get a growler of something light and belgiany filled with an equivanlent amount of rosemary in there. That way, if you don't like it, you're only down 1/2 a gallon and not 5 gallons.

With the all the pils malt, think about a 90 minute boil to drive out DMS.

Don't waste the money on Candi sugar, if you haven't already. Flavor contributions compared to table sugar or demerera/turbinado are minimial.

When experimenting with herbal type beers, I usually make a tea with the herbs. I wait till fermentation is complete. Thief out some beer and pour it in a pint glass. Add a small amount of tea to the fermentation vessel, mix, thief out beer. Taste it against the original, repeat until you get the amount of flavor you want. Always good to have enough of the original beer to taste it against so you do not overdo it.

TNGabe said:

3 oz seems like a whole, whole, whole lot to me. Do you have draft at home? Or a growler fill pub or brewery you're friendly with? Get a growler of something light and belgiany filled with an equivanlent amount of rosemary in there. That way, if you don't like it, you're only down 1/2 a gallon and not 5 gallons.

With the all the pils malt, think about a 90 minute boil to drive out DMS.

Don't waste the money on Candi sugar, if you haven't already. Flavor contributions compared to table sugar or demerera/turbinado are minimial.

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1) This seems like a good idea. I do have draft at home, so this shouldn't be a problem. My finacee and I wanted there to be no mistake that there's rosemary in the beer. I may go the route of grabbing a very neutral Belgian (maybe a Golden) and seeing how the rosemary affects it.

2) Thanks, I was thinking a 90 minute boil, but for a different reason. This is a good idea and is now corrected.

3) I was going to make it, so not too worried about the cost.

FWIW, I just made a Belgian Single and 2 grams of diced leaves dry-hopped in the keg with 5 gallons of beer was nearly overwhelming.

BLAM reports that most Belgian breweries use plain old beet or cane sugar, whatever is cheapest. JZ reports the same. I like turbinado to add a little extra molasses-y flavor, but I believe the sugar is mostly just to add alcohol and dry out the beer.

Piratwolf said:

FWIW, I just made a Belgian Single and 2 grams of diced leaves dry-hopped in the keg with 5 gallons of beer was nearly overwhelming.

BLAM reports that most Belgian breweries use plain old beet or cane sugar, whatever is cheapest. JZ reports the same. I like turbinado to add a little extra molasses-y flavor, but I believe the sugar is mostly just to add alcohol and dry out the beer.

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Thanks for the insight. I actually picked up a lager as well as a Pranqster to run some tests before brewday. I ordered ingredients today, so hopefully brewing sometime this week with my latest recipe posted above

I have a honey-rosemary saison posted in the recipe section, but here's what I did:

6 lb 2-row (US)
4 lb White Wheat malt
1.5 lb honey, wildflower (added to No-Chill cube)
.5 lb Aromatic malt

.5 oz Sorachi Ace (15.1%, leaf) FWH (IBUs calculated as a 30 min addition)
.5 oz Sorachi Ace (15.1%, leaf) 40 min (No-chill equivalent of a 60 min addition)
1 sprig fresh Rosemary, about 4 inches (leaves only, bruised), in the No-Chill vessel

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

Mashed at 150 for 90 min plus mash-out.

Came out really dry (and delicious!), the main flavor was rosemary, though as the beer ages the rosemary backs down and lets you taste malt and a touch of honey. Assuming you don't use no-chill, I'd say add the rosemary to the boil in the 10-5 minute range. If you need more rosemary flavor you can dry-hop with it or make a rosemary tea or extract. Also, I'd add the honey at 5-0 or to secondary.

I would probably go with .25-.50 oz of rosemary. Rosemary is kind of strong flavored

When I measured my sprig out (minus the stem) it came to 3 or 4 GRAMS, IIRC. Definitely easy to overdo it.

eulipion2 said:

I have a honey-rosemary saison posted in the recipe section, but here's what I did:

6 lb 2-row (US)
4 lb White Wheat malt
1.5 lb honey, wildflower (added to No-Chill cube)
.5 lb Aromatic malt

.5 oz Sorachi Ace (15.1%, leaf) FWH (IBUs calculated as a 30 min addition)
.5 oz Sorachi Ace (15.1%, leaf) 40 min (No-chill equivalent of a 60 min addition)
1 sprig fresh Rosemary, about 4 inches (leaves only, bruised), in the No-Chill vessel

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

Mashed at 150 for 90 min plus mash-out.

Came out really dry (and delicious!), the main flavor was rosemary, though as the beer ages the rosemary backs down and lets you taste malt and a touch of honey. Assuming you don't use no-chill, I'd say add the rosemary to the boil in the 10-5 minute range. If you need more rosemary flavor you can dry-hop with it or make a rosemary tea or extract. Also, I'd add the honey at 5-0 or to secondary.

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I did see your recipe when I was doing research. Glad it worked out and thanks for the info on the rosemary. That sounds like about what I'm looking for