Taking it to the next level?

I've been doing all grain for a while, yet feel like im stuck. been doin 5 or 10 gallon batches and I am satified with most of my efforts... Everybody seems to like them, but its hard to get a real grade on my beer through friends and family. So I brought 6 different bottled batches by a local pub and had a tasting with the pub owner and a couple customers. Customers seemed to like it yet the Pub owner seemed to talk down on most of the beers i brought in. Feeling a little discouraged.

Was wondering if i could get some advice on stepping it up.
Thanks
Cole

What did he say was wrong?

malt20 said:

Customers seemed to like it

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This seems like a good sign. If you don't know any of them then you're getting a reasonably objective reading. But I gotta say that I find myself in a similar situation. I decided to enter some of my personal favorite beers in a BJCP competition. I know some judges can be less than useful, but overall I feel like their comment sheets will be my best shot at a truly objective and informed opinion. From what I hear, they also give comments about what's wrong so I can improve my beer!

malt20 said:

yet the Pub owner seemed to talk down on most of the beers i brought in.

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My gut reaction is "duh!". How can the guy justify charging his customers $6/pint if some guy is brewing equally good beer in his own back yard? Was this a Brewpub? Or did they sell only commercial beers? Did he give you any constructive advice?

Unless he gave or is going to give some constructive criticism, then I wouldn't put much stock in what he has to say. Every once in a while I take a couple different batches to my LHBS. The owner is a BJCP judge and he will give me honest feed back as well as how to improve the process.

I agree with the others. Don't get discouraged. Some people just don't believe that homebrew can be as good as commercial beer. You should try to have a blind tasting with him. You will find out how good his taste is, and the differences in the beer. I do this often with our group and love when people select my beer over the others. It's amazing what happens without labels.

Have you tried joining your local Homebrew Club? There has GOT to be one in Fresno somewhere. I am learning alot form my local club and it is only a maybe 30 people. Half of which are just brewers... the other half have some interest or experience as a BJCP. They can also give you open honest feedback, that is the intent of our club at least.

This is more or less the same "problem" that I have now. I'm trying to improve my homebrew ( water chemistry, fermentation temp. control etc) to end up with better beers.

But of course I'm am the only judge of my final products...

I do find that most anyone who tastes my beer is predisposed to like it or to not. I've gotten raving reviews from friends and co workers so I can't trust that. My local club loves everybody's beer so that is not really helpful either. My wife actually gives the best criticism. She seems to pick up on subtle flaws easily... unfortunately she isn't a big fan of really hoppy beers so that limits her usefulness... and of course she is biased in all sorts of ways... too close to the source.

Planning to enter some contests to get real feedback this year. I think that is the only way I will get real comments. I can then proceed to ignore the ones that I disagree with but at least they will be an honest reading of what someone thinks about my brew.

He just didnt like them i guess. said one was a little thin, so 4 out of 10 and the others were 6 out of 10. No explanations on the others. This was a european style pub, very slow old bar keep, very pricey. There were 4 patrons that tasting them and said they liked them or that it was good but they dont drink that type of beer. The wierd thing was the pub owner said he didnt have time to taste the other 2 out of 6 i brought and took the bottles and put them in his fridge!?

Ill probably enter some contests this year to get better opionions and hopefully join my local brew club when I get some extra time.

I've tasted your beer. It's good. Cheers!

I wouldn't pay much attention to limited, ad hoc feedback. You want to improve and get to the next level. Self-assess your process. Grade yourself on your mastery of each sub-process that will affect your product. Choose the one that you think offers the greatest opportunity to improve your beer and take that sub-process to the next level. Then choose another. That's a commitment to continual improvement regardless of what the feedback is. You know your beer better than anyone else and you're in the best position to observe specific changes in your product due to process changes, and that's the feedback you need for improvement. Focus on wort-chilling, fermentation and water. Those are most likely to produce flaws. This process never ends, and your product will continually improve.

I've gotten my best constructive criticism from annual entries into the AHA National competition. Also, in my homebrew club, if you can find a person that is certified and you know has a good set of tasting skills, I'd rely on that person. I've been lucky over the years to have a few people like that in my club. (salute George out of Mandeville, where ya at?)

A constructive review isn't "talking down" on a beer. I taste many beers at my meetings I'm not fond of ... but I don't say "bleh" instead I might point out any glaring flaws or possibly an infection etc.

I think a good start is to enter the AHA Nationals this year. Pick two styles that you consider to be your best and go for it. You get written reviews back and the beers are reviewed by several judges. The further it goes in competition, the more reviews you'll get. And heck, if you get a medal, then you know it's a good beer!

cheers

~rc~