Stuck sparge with SS braid ? *mad*

I bought a 16Q Coleman cooler and equipped it with a 12" SS braid.

I bought a SS braided hose from Home Depot. I cut the ends off and pulled out the core. I tested it with hot water and it worked fine.

I did my mash. I injected steam in the braid to warm the mash. Everything worked great. (I'll post about the steam in another post.)

I heated the mash up to 170F with steam and then started to drain the bed. About a cup drained out and then it was stuck. I stirred and tried everything and I couldn't get it to flow.

I bought my mash from the LHBS. I've mashed it several times using false bottoms and never had a stuck mash before.

I dumped the cooler into my double pail false bottom setup and sparged it out, to decent efficiency, nonetheless, given the mess up !

I looked at the braid after the grains were dumped. The braid was collapsed. I put water in the cooler without touching it and it drained no problem.

What the hell is up with my SS braid ?

I'll post pictures of it tomorrow.

Could it be your SS braid is of those plastic sleeves that only looks like stainless steel? That's the only reason I can think of why it would collapse.

I'll double check it isn't plastic tomorrow, but I am pretty sure it isn't.

Here I though these braids were invincible. All I want to do now is put a false bottom in my cooler !

Its plastic ! I didn't even notice. I used the braid as the entrance for my steam and the heat of the steam and the weight of the mash must have caused the braid to collapse and thus I couldn't sparge.

I feel so stupid !

Do the SS braids collapse like that ? Or do they stay open ?

If you're using steam injection I'd go for a manifold.

orfy said:

If you're using steam injection I'd go for a manifold.

Click to expand...

You beat me too it. I was thinking the steam might expand the braid and cause other issues.

My SS braid has never been a problem as-is, and I've done some high percentage wheat and rye beers with no sparge problems.

dcbrewmeister said:

You beat me too it. I was thinking the steam might expand the braid and cause other issues.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that it will actually cook the mash and cause problems that way. I'm guessing that the steam is not going to be under pressure so it may have difficulty in clearing flour that is usually present in the mash.
A manifold is more rigid, will help with less localised release of heat and can be modified in the size and amount of steam delivery points.

I discuss the steam part of things here.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=218331#post218331

I'm thinking that it will actually cook the mash and cause problems that way. I'm guessing that the steam is not going to be under pressure so it may have difficulty in clearing flour that is usually present in the mash. A manifold is more rigid, will help with less localised release of heat and can be modified in the size and amount of steam delivery points.

Click to expand...

The steam did not cook the mash. The heating is very gentle, but yet effective. The steam bubble doesn't immediately burst, it travels through the mash.

The steam IS under pressure. Up to 15 PSI if you want it to be.

A solid manifold is necessary to prevent the manifold from floating.

See the steam thread for details and further discussion.

My stainless braid has never failed me. I have heard of some brewers inserting copper wire insided of them to keep their shape. I think they wrapped the wire around a pencil to form the shape.

Here's the last minute way to know if you've screwed up and gotten the plastic braid. If you DON'T prick your finger (and draw blood) on the very sharp stainless wires when working on it, you got the plastic one.

What he said!
Cheers

I almost bought a plastic one, too. It was at Home Depot; they only had plastic braids (SS braids only in longer, very expensive lines.)

But, I've wondered about the normal 1/2" braids in a ten-gallon MLT under, say, 18 lbs. of grist.

My local hardware store had SS braid supply lines in 1" diameter. I made a loop with it, connecting each end to a tee fitting on the bulkhead. Looping the braid seems to put a little structural tension back into the braid, i.e making it stronger. It holds up under *lots* of grain, and drains very quickly, if I want it to.

I like the "bleeding fingers" test.

Anyone else have a problem with a SS braid in the boil kettle? I used to use one, but pellet hops plugged it up every time so I gave up.

I use a 1" diameter braid off of a hot water heater supply line. You practically can't flatten that thing, even with your hands.

Home Depot sells a SS Toilet supply line, for much cheaper than the washer line or other lines I saw. It was mixed in with a lot of plastic lines, but just read the packaging carefully and make sure it says "Stainless" and not "Polymer" or some other word for plastic.

I bought a SS braid with the intent of using it in my boil kettle. Only after I hacked it up did I recognize it wasn't ss braid. Ok, that was $ well spent .

I dunno, I really like my copper manifold for my mash.

Now I don't feel quite so foolish for making the same error in buying the 'fake" stainless braid covered lines.

Off to find the real ones.

I was thinking about using a long stainless steel extension spring (from McMaster-Carr) inside the braid to absolutely prevent it from collapsing. I'm going to solder the braid to copper tube couplers and slightly deform them so that they are a force fit into a copper tee. I'll then still be able to disassemble everything for cleaning.

I don't have much to add here, but I just have to add that I too have been fooled by the plastic braiding! When I was starting AG, not all that long ago, I went over to Home Depot and couldn't find anything and explained to one of the many retirees that work there what it was that I needed... He found it in the paint department of all places (no idea why these weren't located in plubming) and I thought it was rather odd that the "Steel" was soooo easy to cut through... After I got the internal tubing out, the braid frayed and imediatly fell apart and I read the tag that came with it and it said it was made out of polymer fibers!

So, to sum up... I went to a real hardware store and got everything I needed there and not only was it what I needed, it was cheaper. I'll be making my imersion chiller with parts from there too... they've got spools of copper tubing and will cut me any length I need for under $1 a foot... Which is funny because Home Depot and Lowes have huge signs that read "WE NO LONGER CUT WOOD OR PIPES" and the only copper I've found is the pre packed, over priced, ice maker kits...

I really wish that I had read this thread earlier today... BEFORE I bought that f#@cking SS looking plastic braiding and went at it with a hack saw... Another $4 that I'll never get back. Home Depot has been nothing but a pain in the arse for me lately

*laughs

I guess I'm not the only one.

I bought a SS braid today and I just finished mashing with it. It worked great.

I calculated 80% efficiency, but my volume might have been a little high. Say a good 75% anyway.

The feed lines for hot water tanks are stainless and are about an inch in diameter. Im using one for my 5gal IglooMax cool water cooler and it works great.Like was stated in a previous post, you can barely crush it with your hands and at $8 for a 18" length it was worth it.

Yeah, if I realized they existed, I would have went with the larger diameter too since it even mates well with a 1/2" pipe nipple so you wouldn't have to add a barb. Even if you did, you'll still talking about faster flow.

faster flow ? Fly spargers won't need faster flow. I have to crimp my drain hose to make sparges last longer. I was really surprised at how fast my braid would flow.

Here are pictures of the new SS braid with a piece of copper welding wire inserted.

http://picasaweb.google.com/beermeister1/SteamMashing/photo#5035553350469266114

http://picasaweb.google.com/beermeister1/SteamMashing/photo#5035553350469266130

http://picasaweb.google.com/beermeister1/SteamMashing/photo#5035553350469266146

If you're fly sparging, I'd say a braid isn't the ideal setup. Everything I've read so far says a concentrated exit point encourages channeling. Maybe it's fine, who knows. In my case a batch sparge doesn't mind a quick drain.

brewman ! said:

Here are pictures of the new SS braid with a piece of copper welding wire inserted.

Click to expand...

Great idea! I'm going to have to give it a try. Thanks!

Ed: How about we call it even for the apfelwein recipe ?

Bobby: I just got over 75% efficiency on a recipe that had 25% corn in it. I think the braid works pretty well and I'd be the first one to complain given my last mash vessel had a false bottom in it. (See the cooler in my gallery.)

The jury is still out a bit, but I think the braid works just fine for fly sparging. One thing about it, you never have to worry about it shifting and allowing grain through.

I think it is necessary to make sure there is enough braid in the cooler to ensure proper drainage for all the grain when fly sparging.

Just thinking about it, one could lay a piece of perforated plastic over the braid to create a mini tented false bottom. I was very worried about hooking my braid when stirring my mash. See the false bottom in the cooler in my gallery. I got that plastic mesh at a craft store for a $1 a sheet or something silly like that.

Hey brewman !, anyplace local to get a good deal on those type K thermocouples?

*laughs

I have 50 feet of type K thermocouple wire, but no ends. I know that Digikey sells the wire and ends. I'll order some ends the next time I order from them.

BTW: my temp voltmeter came from House of Tools for like $10. I have a couple of them. I use them on other projects. The voltmeter comes with the temp probe (actually just wire) that you see me using. Buy a VOM, get wire with an end.

Will-do. I already have the meter. Why didn't I think of those before? I used to use them all the time at work. D'oh!

BTW: I like using bare wire. Gives a really fast response time. Just use a hot torch to melt the ends together. You'd be surprised what you find for temps poking around the mash vessel. Or at least I do.