I know there are a ton of books out there from professional breweries etc. do you all think they tell the truth on recipes etc.? I know there are trade secrets but some of it seems to be too forthcoming.
From someone who has some pro-am experience... the recipe changes (slightly) every time you get in a new batch of ingredients. Lots of variables to adjust for to keep the product consistent.
So breweries who publish their recipes are publishing a snapshot in time. There is much more to a beer than a list of ingredients. So they have little to lose in publishing recipes.
Starr Hill is tight-lipped about their recipes
reasoning is that we wouldn't appreciate it/it wouldn't be as satisfying if we didn't work it out ourselves
Let's face it, most home brewers (including me) have had trouble doing a kit correctly. If that wasn't true, 2/3 of the threads here on HBT wouldn't exist. So I'm pretty sure that the pros have little fear that we're going to cut into their profit share. If you listen to CYBI, you'll hear JZ and Tasty say the recipes are legit and there are many pros who are very supportive of the home brew community b/c they know we buy and spread the word about their beers. I have, however, heard some brewers protect certain processes or techniques that are cutting edge, and I have no problem with that.
Starr Hill is tight-lipped about their recipes
reasoning is that we wouldn't appreciate it/it wouldn't be as satisfying if we didn't work it out ourselves
I completely agree. I have never been interested in cloning any commercial brew. I am very much inspired by commercial beers I have drank but never have I wanted to copy them verbatim. What is the point? Go buy a sixer of it and save some money, seriously. I guess people see it as a challenge but I think trying to piece it out yourself and dial it in is much more the point of a challenge instead of copying a recipe a brewer gives you to duplicate it to the letter.
Just my .02.
I completely agree. I have never been interested in cloning any commercial brew. I am very much inspired by commercial beers I have drank but never have I wanted to copy them verbatim. What is the point? Go buy a sixer of it and save some money, seriously. I guess people see it as a challenge but I think trying to piece it out yourself and dial it in is much more the point of a challenge instead of copying a recipe a brewer gives you to duplicate it to the letter.
Just my .02.
I disagree with your post. I don't have the time to fiddle with tirelessly trying to figure out batches. I know what I like, and I would like to recreate it quickly. It is no different than copying Emeril's gumbo (which I am doing today). Cloning is very popular for these reasons and more more. This is exactly the point, and why we have entire issues, publications, podcasts, etc.... devoted to cloning beers. This way someone else who has the time can do the dirty work and and I can copy it. I really enjoy this hobby, but with a family and a career I have to partition my time.
Starr Hill is tight-lipped about their recipes
reasoning is that we wouldn't appreciate it/it wouldn't be as satisfying if we didn't work it out ourselves
I'm sure you've heard the adage "It's not about the destination. It's about the journey." I also have a family and own my own small business so my time is at a premium as well but I just think copying down recipes and doing them verbatim is totally missing the point.
The best cooks, brewers, writers, and artists in general very seldom do something 100% original but just as seldom do they copy a recipe or example verbatim. It is interpretation of an existing example that is the greatest teacher.
I find that a BS reason. If they don't want to give out their recipes, that's their right, and I'm fine with it. But then just say you don't want to. To claim you're doing homebrewers a service by not giving out your recipes is farcical. Its up to each homebrewer to decide if working out the recipe on their own, or working out their own style, is important to them. And for the homebrewers who want to be the best brewers they can be, then yes, figuring things like that out on their own are important. Problem is, many homebrewers don't fall into that category, and you wouldn't be doing them any disservice by giving them a recipe.
So by all means, withhold your recipe, but just do it on the grounds that you don't want to give it out, not by claiming you're protecting all the poor homebrewers out there by not giving it out.
To be clear, I completely agree with you as far as how I like to brew. I tweak things, I play around with things to find out how things work and to make things that are truly mine. I just get annoyed when people try to tell other folks what they should consider important in brewing, which is what it felt like you were doing. Perhaps I was wrong.
Yeah, I agree that that was a bad way of saying it. It comes off sounding like he's a father figure to homebrewers and he's showing them some tough love. Please.
I sent a brewery a question about how much pecan they use in their pecan beer, because i was brewing a pecan porter as part of an iron brewer competition. Their response was "I'm sure you understand why we can't share any information about our recipes." I felt like writing back "actually no, I can't understand in the slightest why you think your recipe is so important that you won't even share some ballpark figures on pecan additions."
That illuminates an interesting disparity in the brewing community. Most small scale craft brewers I talk to love to talk shop and share recipes and specific ideas on what they do with me. And even some bigger guys have been helpful through email correspondences (Sixpoint and Upland in particular) but usually the bigger the brewery the more tight-lipped and less helpful they are to other brewers.
I'm sure you've heard the adage "It's not about the destination. It's about the journey."
I know there are a ton of books out there from professional breweries etc. do you all think they tell the truth on recipes etc.? I know there are trade secrets but some of it seems to be too forthcoming.
I find that a BS reason. If they don't want to give out their recipes, that's their right, and I'm fine with it. But then just say you don't want to. To claim you're doing homebrewers a service by not giving out your recipes is farcical. [snip] So by all means, withhold your recipe, but just do it on the grounds that you don't want to give it out, not by claiming you're protecting all the poor homebrewers out there by not giving it out.
I completely agree. I have never been interested in cloning any commercial brew. I am very much inspired by commercial beers I have drank but never have I wanted to copy them verbatim. What is the point? Go buy a sixer of it and save some money, seriously. I guess people see it as a challenge but I think trying to piece it out yourself and dial it in is much more the point of a challenge instead of copying a recipe a brewer gives you to duplicate it to the letter.
Just my .02.
For starters, I actually enjoy homebrewing. It's not a chore to brew, it's fun. And so while I'm homebrewing, why not brew a beer that I like, like Bell's Two Hearted IPA? I can use Bell's as a model to judge my process. It's especially useful if I know the basic recipe to start with.
Also, I can brew Two Hearted for about 1/3 the price that I can buy it locally (Price per 6-pack vs cost of 6 bottles of a 5 gallon batch of homebrew), so I'd rather Homebrew and save some money, seriously.
For starters, I actually enjoy homebrewing. It's not a chore to brew, it's fun. And so while I'm homebrewing, why not brew a beer that I like, like Bell's Two Hearted IPA? I can use Bell's as a model to judge my process. It's especially useful if I know the basic recipe to start with.
Also, I can brew Two Hearted for about 1/3 the price that I can buy it locally (Price per 6-pack vs cost of 6 bottles of a 5 gallon batch of homebrew), so I'd rather Homebrew and save some money, seriously.
I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything about homebrewing being a chore or not. I only said that I personally prefer to be inspired by a finished product and figure out along the way what gets me close to those examples instead of just coloring within the lines.
I sent a brewery a question about how much pecan they use in their pecan beer, because i was brewing a pecan porter as part of an iron brewer competition. Their response was "I'm sure you understand why we can't share any information about our recipes." I felt like writing back "actually no, I can't understand in the slightest why you think your recipe is so important that you won't even share some ballpark figures on pecan additions."
highgravitybacon said:Because 10 years from now, you're going to open a nano brewery that will springboard into a 300bbl regional powerhouse. Over the next 5 years, you will create an ultimate pecan beer clone, Identical Clone, that you will pump out of your now 900 bbl brewhouse, and release to the market at cost. This will be so cheap that the brewery you got the recipe from wont be able to compete in the pecan flavored beer market. They will fold under your great might . You will then control 96% of the pecan beer industry all because one micro brewery foolishly gave you a ballpark figure of their pecan content 20 years ago.
The reason pro breweries won't release their recipes is simple: there's zero incentive to do so, and the risks of releasing it are unknown.
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