MrManifesto
Well-Known Member
about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!
about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!
I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?
No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.
If the slurry from dry yeast fermentation is re-pitched from one batch of beer to another, the wort has to be aerated as with any liquid yeast.
wildwest450 said:Threads like this make me sick.
From Danstar:
So, do you want to believe some guy on the internet or the company who makes the product?
but I don't think doing it is harmful either.
Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. When you inoculate this yeast into a starter or into the mash, the yeast can double about three time before it runs out of lipids and the growth will stop. There is about 5% lipids in the dry yeast.
In a very general view:
At each doubling it will split the lipids with out making more lipids (no O2). The first split leaves 2.5% for each daughter cell. The second split leaves 1.25% for each daughter cell. The next split leaves 0.63%. This is the low level that stops yeast multiplication. Unless you add O2 the reproduction will stop.
When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum.
Revvy said:But fermentis says to aerate with their yeasts. So do you want to believe the makers of Notty, or the makers of us-05?
I was taught to aerate will all yeasts....And I personally don't plan on stopping. It may not be "necessary," but I don't think doing it is harmful either.
But fermentis says to aerate with their yeasts. So do you want to believe the makers of Notty, or the makers of us-05?
Fermentis said:Aeration is recommended to ensure full mixing of the wort and yeast.
A) Nottingham is the best selling dried yeast in the world... just sayin'
okay, Revvy, I'll bite.
Fermentis recommends to aerate to mix the wort/yeast completely.
Now, we know the main reasone adequate aeration is needed with liquid yeast is because plenty of oxygen is needed during the initial reproductive phase (which isn't needed with dry yeast pitching rates).
So, while Fermentis may recommend aeration, it certainly isn't to increase oxygen levels; it's solely for mixing of yeast/wort.
Now, we know the main reasone adequate aeration is needed with liquid yeast is because plenty of oxygen is needed during the initial reproductive phase (which isn't needed with dry yeast pitching rates).
kmk1012 said:Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a person aerate their wort? Just one extra little step to ensure (for me) a good faster fermentation.
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't a person aerate their wort? Just one extra little step to ensure (for me) a good faster fermentation.
about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!
Even if Lallemand doesn't need o2, it is a best practice to do it every time, so you're in the habit of it when you do need it.
NochEineMassBitte said:I dunno, every time I've attempted to aerate dry yeast, it just flies all over the room...
I dunno, every time I've attempted to aerate dry yeast, it just flies all over the room...
Revvy said:This is part of my reasoning for continuing to do it. I try to have a consistent process in my brewing practice. Keeps me from forgetting things like pitching yeast or sanitizing or adding hops, so even if I'm drunk, answering questions while brewing, or if there's any chance of interruption, my process is steady, and works for me. "Step w" aerate, step x pitch yeast, step y sanitize lid/stopper, step z seal fermenter.'
wildwest450 said:Do some research before posting, it is NOT necessary.
Threads like this make me sick.
Just because the majority believe something, that doesn't make it so.
wildwest450 said:Especially since he's taking this from another thread where faulty information is being touted as gospel.
I'm posting from my phone so it's hard to site sources but google the maltose falcons and they research they've done.
Revvy said:If you're talking about THIS, on first glance I think they're really only talking about liquid cultures. I only scanned it, but they keep talking about smack packs and tubes.
Could be right, it's been a couple since I've read it. Thing is, though, yeast is yeast. Only difference between dry and liquid is that dry has been through a different process (that's pretty tough on them) to make them "dried". They're still the same beast, though and if we're agreeing that it's good to aerate liquid, why not dry? Someone smarter than me may very well know, I'm not trying to present myself as the end all, be all of homebrew but it just doesn't stand to reason with what I know now.
I acknowledge that's there's more to know and if someone can present some real, clear info, I'll change my mind.
Of course, it can become a thickly scientific topic quickly when you move from anecdote to proof. But I think Dr. Clayton Cone knows what he's talking about - this has been referred to a couple of times now. Here's a link and a quote from it. I'd suggest that if you like your beer, just keep doing what you are doing
"Yeast need a trace amount of oxygen in an anaerobic fermentation such as brewing to produce lipids in the cell wall. With out O2 the cell cannot metabolize the squalene to the next step which is a lipid. ... Lallemand packs the maximum amount of lipids into the cell wall that is possible during the aerobic production of the yeast at the factory. ... When you produce 3-5% alcohol beer this is no problem. It is when you produce higher alcohol beer or inoculate at a lower rate, that you need to add O2 to produce more yeast and for alcohol tolerance near the end of fermentation. You definitely need added O2 when you reuse the yeast for the next inoculum."
Aeration and Starter Versus Wort | Danstar Premium Beer Yeasts - The Dry Yeast Advantage
about not needing to aerate dry yeast. This is completely false info and I can just picture noobs taking this in and having a ton of stuck ferments. Let's nip this in the bud! Aerate, people!
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