I have been thinking about several things lately after reading posts on the forum. I, like most of you, read something that may not even be remotely what I am thinking about and then BAM... idea! Since we have such a wonderful vehicle of running ideas back and forth here on HBT, I thought I would post my latest ponderings. I hope to get some absolute answers with evidence, so I can nip stuff that is just silly in the bud, but I invite all of you to chime in with criticisms. Everything helps when you are trying to work through an idea. First let me start with saying that, in the past people thought things like no-chill, pressurized fermentation, and other such "outlandish" ideas were stupid. Some people still think they are, so those would be the only comments I would prefer not to clutter up the thread... if you please.
Most of you guys know I am a pressure fermentor. I love the ease it gives me, and I love the end product as well. Having never said it is any better than normal ways, I will defend to the death that it is in no way any worse than normal fermentation techniques. This, of course, with exceptions of certain beer styles that require what pressure fermentation won't allow (ie. estery beers). Reading and hearing about no-chill, it got me to thinking that P-Ferment kind of lends itself to the no-chill procedure in the facts that you need a container that can stand the heat from the boiling wort and the vacuum created after the cooling occurs in a sealed container. A keg would work appropriately in both situations, as well as for a pressurized fermentation once the yeast is pitched.
I have seen before, but cannot find now (please link me if you find it), breweries using steam cleaned kegs in which a vacuum was created from cleaning and cooling. They filled the kegs with beer, equalizing this vacuum and ending up with pressurized beer storage. Once you have a keg filled with wort and a vacuum, the problems I foresee making this "easy" are aeration and inoculation. I have no idea what kind of vacuum we are talking about here, with 15 gallons of boiling wort sealed up in a Sanke keg and allowed to cool, but I assume it would be significant. Canning creates these same pressures though, and glass seems to hold up nicely. Now, on to my way of thinking so you guys have something specific to chime in on. With before said keg o'wort under vacuum and at temperature to pitch, how would you go about aerating it? How would you go about pitching it? Remember, the whole point to it being sealed is to remain in as sterile an environment as it can possibly be.
My thoughts and wonders:
Aeration - Could I simply hook up my O2 tank and fill the Sanke, equalizing the pressure? Would I have to stop after 2-3 minutes like when I use my stone and wand? Since I wouldn't be using a stone, would I have to stop even sooner (since obviously more O2 would be allowed to go in being under less resistance with no stone)? Would it be pointless to oxygenate through the dip tube, meaning no matter how I got the O2 in there it would be fine? I'm thinking shaking needs to be done no matter what anyway. Is there something I am not thinking about while under a vacuum about O2, like does it act differently or would it be able to be absorbed into the wort? You see where I am going by asking, so hopefully you can help with this line of questioning. If O2 absorption is impossible under a vacuum, would pitching first and then equalizing with HEPA air filters/other equalizing procedures be the way to go prior to aeration? As long as the beer receives the O2 it needs for a good start, I couldn't care less if it were still under a vacuum (of course if this is possible). Once fermentation starts, it will produce CO2 and have excess pressure relieved out of the spunding valve just like any other pressure ferment.
Pitching - I'm really thinking about doing starters in 2 liter pop bottles, or at least combining the yeast in some size pop bottle after decanting. I would like to make a connector to combine a bottle fitting to a tap connector, so that when the tap is engaged it could suck the contents of the bottle into the keg. Of course, you would have to rig the connector by removing beer-out check valves and capping the gas port. The liquid and yeast would be sucked in before the bottle collapses into the tap port hole. I really don't think it is possible for the bottle to enter the tap connector in any way... again, maybe I am wrong but it just seems impossible. Once you have dosed your beer, un-tap the connector and the bottle would release its vacuum allowing it to be taken off. Again, after this as your first procedure you could then aerate to recommended O2 volumes (if the vacuum allows you to do this), or equalize the pressure with O2 and shake to aerate.
I think this is long enough as a start. I will explain further my thoughts if the tangents are brought up, but these are the basic things I am wondering about for using my equipment in this way. I am sorry about all the questions, but if you don't ask... you don't get answers.
Most of you guys know I am a pressure fermentor. I love the ease it gives me, and I love the end product as well. Having never said it is any better than normal ways, I will defend to the death that it is in no way any worse than normal fermentation techniques. This, of course, with exceptions of certain beer styles that require what pressure fermentation won't allow (ie. estery beers). Reading and hearing about no-chill, it got me to thinking that P-Ferment kind of lends itself to the no-chill procedure in the facts that you need a container that can stand the heat from the boiling wort and the vacuum created after the cooling occurs in a sealed container. A keg would work appropriately in both situations, as well as for a pressurized fermentation once the yeast is pitched.
I have seen before, but cannot find now (please link me if you find it), breweries using steam cleaned kegs in which a vacuum was created from cleaning and cooling. They filled the kegs with beer, equalizing this vacuum and ending up with pressurized beer storage. Once you have a keg filled with wort and a vacuum, the problems I foresee making this "easy" are aeration and inoculation. I have no idea what kind of vacuum we are talking about here, with 15 gallons of boiling wort sealed up in a Sanke keg and allowed to cool, but I assume it would be significant. Canning creates these same pressures though, and glass seems to hold up nicely. Now, on to my way of thinking so you guys have something specific to chime in on. With before said keg o'wort under vacuum and at temperature to pitch, how would you go about aerating it? How would you go about pitching it? Remember, the whole point to it being sealed is to remain in as sterile an environment as it can possibly be.
My thoughts and wonders:
Aeration - Could I simply hook up my O2 tank and fill the Sanke, equalizing the pressure? Would I have to stop after 2-3 minutes like when I use my stone and wand? Since I wouldn't be using a stone, would I have to stop even sooner (since obviously more O2 would be allowed to go in being under less resistance with no stone)? Would it be pointless to oxygenate through the dip tube, meaning no matter how I got the O2 in there it would be fine? I'm thinking shaking needs to be done no matter what anyway. Is there something I am not thinking about while under a vacuum about O2, like does it act differently or would it be able to be absorbed into the wort? You see where I am going by asking, so hopefully you can help with this line of questioning. If O2 absorption is impossible under a vacuum, would pitching first and then equalizing with HEPA air filters/other equalizing procedures be the way to go prior to aeration? As long as the beer receives the O2 it needs for a good start, I couldn't care less if it were still under a vacuum (of course if this is possible). Once fermentation starts, it will produce CO2 and have excess pressure relieved out of the spunding valve just like any other pressure ferment.
Pitching - I'm really thinking about doing starters in 2 liter pop bottles, or at least combining the yeast in some size pop bottle after decanting. I would like to make a connector to combine a bottle fitting to a tap connector, so that when the tap is engaged it could suck the contents of the bottle into the keg. Of course, you would have to rig the connector by removing beer-out check valves and capping the gas port. The liquid and yeast would be sucked in before the bottle collapses into the tap port hole. I really don't think it is possible for the bottle to enter the tap connector in any way... again, maybe I am wrong but it just seems impossible. Once you have dosed your beer, un-tap the connector and the bottle would release its vacuum allowing it to be taken off. Again, after this as your first procedure you could then aerate to recommended O2 volumes (if the vacuum allows you to do this), or equalize the pressure with O2 and shake to aerate.
I think this is long enough as a start. I will explain further my thoughts if the tangents are brought up, but these are the basic things I am wondering about for using my equipment in this way. I am sorry about all the questions, but if you don't ask... you don't get answers.