Wanted: Feedback on this Recipe!

Hi All

I have worked up a recipe for my next batch of brew. It will be my 5th batch but the first time I've used a recipe of my own instead of one supplied to me by my LHBS. I would love to hear feedback from folks who have more experience!

The idea for the recipe came about after looking at the hops used in Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (a favorite of mine). I want to try and make an Imperial IPA with a similar profile so I used the same hops- just more! What I am really interested in is achieving the same crisp clean finish that SN does in their pale ale so any advice on this aspect in particular would be appreciated.

It's a specialty grain, extract recipe. I'd be doing a full boil, starting with 6 gallons in the hopes of reaching 5 gallons after a 60 minute boil. Here is the recipe so far.

.75 lbs American Caramel 60°L steeped for 30 min. @ 154* (???)
4.5 lbs Dry Extra Light Extract boiled 60 min.
4.5 lbs Dry Extra Light Extract boiled 20 min.
.5 lbs Malto Dextrin
1.75 oz Magnum (Pellets, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
.5 oz Perle (Pellets, 8.25 %AA) boiled 15 min.
.5 oz Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA) boiled 1 min.
Yeast: White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Dry hop schedule:
.67 oz Magnum (Pellets, 14.50 %AA)
.67 oz Perle (Pellets, 8.25 %AA)
.67 oz Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA)

The predicted characteristics are an approximation as I don't have any brewing software. I used a free online recipe calculator but it didn't figure in the late extract addition. The default brewhouse efficiency is 72%. I didn't change it because I have no idea what my actual efficiency is.This is what I have calculated:

OG: 1.087
FG: 1.015
Color: 11.99
IBU: 136.0
ABV: 9.5%

Looks good. I'd omit the malto dextrin though. It just adds unfermentables and calories.

JonK331 said:

Looks good. I'd omit the malto dextrin though. It just adds unfermentables and calories.

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I agree. It makes the beer "thick" which you may want in an oatmeal stout, but not in an IIPA.

I'd also use a full ounce of cascade at 5 minutes, and stronger consider a full ounce at 15 minutes, as well as a full ounce at flame out. You don't have nearly enough late hops for an IIPA.

I'd skip the magnum in dryhopping (don't like it, but it's great for bittering), and increase the cascades there.

Thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.

Here is my new and improved recipe.

.75 lbs American Caramel 60°L steeped for 30 min. @ 154* (???)
4.5 lbs Dry Extra Light Extract boiled 60 min.
4.5 lbs Dry Extra Light Extract boiled 20 min.
1.75 oz Magnum (Pellets, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
1 oz Perle (Pellets, 8.25 %AA) boiled 15 min.
1 oz Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA) boiled 5 min.
1 oz Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA) added at flameout
Yeast: White Labs WLP001 California Ale

Dry hop schedule:
.75 oz Perle (Pellets, 8.25 %AA)
1.25 oz Cascade (Pellets, 5.50 %AA)

OG: 1.082
FG: 1.014
Color: 11.99
IBU: 145
ABV: 9.0%

Again, these numbers are approximate due to the limits of the calculator I'm using. I had the maltodextrine in there for alcohol content but I definitely don't want a thick IIPA.

As far as the hops, I love a hoppy IIPA but I was going by the "Style Comparison" which says that the IBU range maxes out at 120. Do you think there is room for more in the new recipe? I'd be happy to add 'em!

BTW, I've been a member on this site for a month and have been reading and learning a TON. It's a real kick for me to get a response to my post from THE Yooper (Giving leg to stand on since 2006.). Ha! Alright... back to business.

Thanks!

Maltodextrine isn't fermentable, that's why it makes the beer "thick" so it's best to leave it out.

You can't get more than about 100 IBUs or so in wort anyway, as there are limits to the amount of hops oils that can isomerize. In addition, the human tongue can't really taste more than 100 IBUs either. So don't really worry about "maxing out".

The thing is, you don't need to get all of the IBUs at the bittering addition. The late hops give some bitterness, also, but hops flavor and aroma. The key to an IIPA is lots of those hops flavors and aromas, and NOT the bitterness so much. You can cut the magnums at 60 minutes to reduce the IBUs to 80/90 if you want, and the beer will be good, maybe even better for it.

I make a ton of IPAs/APAs/IIPAs/American ambers, and sort of geek out on hops. I think that it's my one area of expertise in brewing, so I'm always glad to give my $.02!

I might reduce the magnum at the 60 minute mark but add a 45 minute addition just to get the "continuous hops addition" effect. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Personally, for a IIPA, I would double all of the Cascade additions in the updated recipe too really give it that resiny grapefruit flavor and also add a cooled simple syrup of 8oz table sugar and 8oz water 2 or 3 days after fermentation has begun to help dry it out.

When you say "dry it out" what do you mean? I assume it would increase the alcohol content. Would it make for a cleaner finish? Any advice is appreciated.

To "dry it out" means to lower the final gravity. This means there is less residual sugars giving less malt character. For instance a dry champagne is not sugary sweet. Thia will allow the hops to shine through by decreasing contrasting flavors. I personally like the maltiness of an iipa and I think its an intricate balance. But you know what you like.

Thanks. That makes sense. I don't like much malt sweetness at all in a beer like this so I'm going try your technique. Just plain old table sugar?

humulene said:

Thanks. That makes sense. I don't like much malt sweetness at all in a beer like this so I'm going try your technique. Just plain old table sugar?

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That generally only works if you replace some of the malt with sugar, either table sugar or corn sugar.

You could sub a pound of sugar for one pound of DME at the 20 minute extract addition, which will create a thinner bodied beer with a drier finish.

MrOH said:

Personally, for a IIPA, I would double all of the Cascade additions in the updated recipe too really give it that resiny grapefruit flavor and also add a cooled simple syrup of 8oz table sugar and 8oz water 2 or 3 days after fermentation has begun to help dry it out.

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Adding table sugar (simple syrup) doesn't change the amount of unfermentables that are already in the beer. The yeast will consume the table sugar and increase the alcohol but this will not do much to the FG.

JonK331 said:

Adding table sugar (simple syrup) doesn't change the amount of unfermentables that are already in the beer. The yeast will consume the table sugar and increase the alcohol but this will not do much to the FG.

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That makes sense.

This is both the wonderful thing about brewing beer and the challenge. There are so many different possible recipe combinations and being so new, I just don't know which direction to take. I do plan on increasing the late hop additions and changing the dry hop schedule. I don't neccessarily want to increase the alcohol but I would like to have a clean, crisp finish and a hop bursting flavor and aroma.

O.K. I've been reading and making adjustments to my recipe. I changed the hop schedule to include more late additions to increase the hop flavor and aroma. I also changed the list of fermentables to include sugar. I split the grains to include 2-row and crystal 60 to lighten up the color. I am wondering about the yeast. Mr. Malty recommends 3 vials or 2 with a starter. I've never made a starter before but am willing to try. Is there another yeast that would keep the beer clean and crisp without adding to much fruity or malty flavors? My other question is about the hops? What do you think? Will it be "in your face?" Here is the new recipe:

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.089
Final Gravity: 1.021
ABV (standard): 8.96%
IBU (tinseth): 156.97 (Closer to 190 because of late extract addition)
SRM (morey): 8.88

FERMENTABLES:
0.5 lb - Caramel / Crystal 60L (4.55%)
0.75 lb - Cane Sugar (6.82%)
9 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light (81.82%)
0.75 lb - Pale 2-Row (6.82%)

HOPS:
1.75 oz - Magnum (AA 15) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Perle (AA 8.2) for 45 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Cascade (AA 7) for 30 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Cascade (AA 7) for 20 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Perle (AA 8.2) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Cascade (AA 7) for 10 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Cascade (AA 7) for 5 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Cascade (AA 7) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma
1 oz - Perle (AA 8.2) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Aroma
1.5 oz - Cascade (AA 7), Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop
1.5 oz - Perle (AA 8.2), Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop

YEAST:
White Labs - California Ale Yeast WLP001

That should be pretty good and "in your face." I like it. As for yeast id recommend you just use two packets of us-05 dry yeast. You could make a starter, but I just don't like paying that much for yeast. Us-05 is, I think, the same strain as wlp-001 and Wyeast 1056 so two cheap packets of us-05 should be fine. Its very clean

gstrawn said:

That should be pretty good and "in your face." I like it. As for yeast id recommend you just use two packets of us-05 dry yeast. You could make a starter, but I just don't like paying that much for yeast. Us-05 is, I think, the same strain as wlp-001 and Wyeast 1056 so two cheap packets of us-05 should be fine. Its very clean

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It's funny you mention US-05 for a couple of reasons. After I posted this, I did a quick search for "best yeast for IIPA." I found a lot of people mentioning us-05.

Where I live there is only one LHBS and they only sell dry yeast. The reason I was considering WL was simply because I haven't ever used it before. But then I'd have to order it online, pay more, wait longer, etc... I might just take your advice on the yeast instead. I appreciate the help!

Personally, I don't think i'd spend this much money and time on a big beer and then use dry yeast. I know it's a matter of taste in some minds, but I would order a good liquid yeast 1272 or even Pacman, find out how big a starter I need, make it, and pitch it. I know you can make good beer with dry yeast--I still use 05 and Notty for small beers--but for a beer with so much love in it already, I like to go the extra mile!

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the discussion. I really want to make a great beer. I have been working on this recipe for over a week now and it has changed dramatically from the first incarnation due in karfge part to the advice and knowledge I've gotten from this forum.

I know that yeast can affect the beer in a major way. I want to stay away from fruity esters and malty flavors. I have also learned how important fermentation temps are to achieve a great beer so I plan to monitor and control that closely.

I will have to read about Pacman and 1272. I also read about the WLP-007. Any thoughts on this? I want to "dry" the beer out. I really want a clean, crisp finish with a [very] light malt flavor in the background. I like the bitter (not harsh) aftertaste and slight alcohol taste.

I realize the best way to develop a recipe is to experiment so I should probably just dive in but I'm trying to get as well informed as possible!

Well, given what you've said about the flavor profile you seek--dry & clean--it may be that US-05 is the way to go. Other (liquid) yeasts DO have more impact on the flavor. Regardless, I hope you report back on the outcome!

I agree that liquid yeasts are superior if used correctly. But not in regards to wlp001 and 1056. I use 1272 as my house ale and love it. But if I didn't have my house strain on hand id use 05. Its very clean, no esters and itllmake good beer for sure.