Heh--does this look infected? Oh, this is actually not funny.

Hey y'all. I have a batch of Amber Ale. It's in secondary. First, it had a green apple smell (which dissipated), and now it has these white areas on top.

So...does this look infected to you?

View from the top of the carboy.






Up close

Are the white spots fuzzy or just bubbley?

Looks like mold to me. Is it done? take a sample. If it tastes good and is done, rack from underneath the (suspected by me) mold and it could work out well.

I'm no expert. ;-)

Like Surfer said, taste it, you'll know if it's good or bad. And just my 2 cents worth, but that looks like way to much head space for a secondary. The more surface area you have after primary is complete and it's no longer producing Co2, the more O2 is in contact with the beer and the better the chance for oxidation/contamination/mold to develope.

Just tried it. The taste is similar to how it was before.

The rafts appear to be...gas? I don't get it. I siphoned up some of the white rafts as seen in the picture, and they immediately dissipate into gas.

There is now additional airlock activity, so I have no idea what the hell is going on in there.

It's just clusters of tiny bubbles from the co2 off gassing.

How long was it in primary before you racked it over.

what yeast did you use

Nugget--3 weeks in the primary. This is the second week in the secondary.

Yeast: Wyeast 1056

I'm just curious - why is it in secondary? Did you dryhop? I don't see any signs of that based on pics. Oh wait - that looks like hop material in the one pic...nm.

Nuggethead said:

Like Surfer said, taste it, you'll know if it's good or bad. And just my 2 cents worth, but that looks like way to much head space for a secondary. The more surface area you have after primary is complete and it's no longer producing Co2, the more O2 is in contact with the beer and the better the chance for oxidation/contamination/mold to develope.

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This ^^^^^. You might have caused more problems using a secondary than any possible benefits, especially with that large amount of headspace.

BigFloyd said:

This ^^^^^. You might have caused more problems using a secondary than any possible benefits, especially with that large amount of headspace.

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I know a lot of people are of the single fermenter view, but I've had bad experiences with that. I use secondary fermentation to clean up a beer.

JaySherman said:

I know a lot of people are of the single fermenter view, but I've had bad experiences with that. I use secondary fermentation to clean up a beer.

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I doubt your bad experiences were because you didn't use a secondary. I don't and my beers come out great.

JaySherman said:

I know a lot of people are of the single fermenter view, but I've had bad experiences with that. I use secondary fermentation to clean up a beer.

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What does the secondary clean up and/or what is it about the secondary that allows it to clean a beer up?

Gameface said:

What does the secondary clean up and/or what is it about the secondary that allows it to clean a beer up?

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Trub.

During my first foray into single-fermenter territory, I made a red ale. I try to leave an inch or so of beer on the bottom when I transfer to bottling bucket, so that I can avoid trub ruining a beer.

That red ale had far more trub than I've ever had before. Every beer since has had less trub.

The way I figure it, transferring reduces the amount of available trub that can make it into the finished product, and also allows for more time for things to settle out.

LovesIPA: I doubt your bad experiences were because you didn't use a secondary. I don't and my beers come out great.

Cool! I've done the single fermenter route, and I wasn't happy with my results. Glad it's working for you.

That red ale had far more trub than I've ever had before. Every beer since has had less trub.
The way I figure it, transferring reduces the amount of available trub that can make it into the finished product, and also allows for more time for things to settle out.

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Leave the trub in your kettle. It all settles out in the primary anyway if you simply give it enough time. There's no rule that says you have to move it to another fermenter for that to happen. I'm cool with however you want to brew, but clearing happens when yeast flocculate and that can happen in any sort of a container.

I get a secondary if you want to add fruit/wood/spices or do a lambic or sour beer. But I personally think any other reason cited for it is just rationalizing the additional exposure to O2 that you're incurring. If that is an infection, I venture to say the transfer to 2ndary likely was when it happened.

If you want help, realize that CHANGING something might be the advice you get.

Transfering to a secondary to avoid yeast flavors for some styles is appropriate and with lagers if u want a clean malt profile with little yeast presence. If you have a kegging system, purge ur secondary with co2 and rack onto that. Co2 is heavier than air so ur beer will flush all the gas up and leave ur headspace full of co2.

jbaysurfer said:

Leave the trub in your kettle. It all settles out in the primary anyway if you simply give it enough time. There's no rule that says you have to move it to another fermenter for that to happen. I'm cool with however you want to brew, but clearing happens when yeast flocculate and that can happen in any sort of a container.

I get a secondary if you want to add fruit/wood/spices or do a lambic or sour beer. But I personally think any other reason cited for it is just rationalizing the additional exposure to O2 that you're incurring. If that is an infection, I venture to say the transfer to 2ndary likely was when it happened.

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That all makes a fair bit of sense.

I think you're fine. Looks like "yeast rafts" to me. I used to routinely rack beer to a secondary (glass) after the 1st week of fermentation (not worth the effort), and this was a common site - white floats with gas bubbles around them. I'm pretty sure they're just small clusters of yeast cells that are being kept boyant by the little bit of CO2 they're producing. Give the carboy a swirl (gently) and I'll bet they'll drop out of suspension.

Good luck!

PLOVE said:

I think you're fine. Looks like "yeast rafts" to me. I used to routinely rack beer to a secondary (glass) after the 1st week of fermentation (not worth the effort), and this was a common site - white floats with gas bubbles around them. I'm pretty sure they're just small clusters of yeast cells that are being kept boyant by the little bit of CO2 they're producing. Give the carboy a swirl (gently) and I'll bet they'll drop out of suspension.

Good luck!

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I don't understand why, after almost no activity since mid-April, it's producing gas now.

JaySherman said:

I don't understand why, after almost no activity since mid-April, it's producing gas now.

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Has the room it's in gotten hotter since April?

Gameface said:

Has the room it's in gotten hotter since April?

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Yes, yes it has. In the last few weeks it crested in the mid-80's, but now it's around 70 in the house. The brew closet is a few degrees cooler (68? 67?)

I didn't even think about that!

Wouldn't the beer have off-gassed during the heat wave instead of now?

Furthermore, there seems to be a growing amount of white bubble rafts and smaller bubbles on the beer.

Here's a quick update: the bubbles have gotten more potent.



I think I may have introduced an infection while taking a hydrometer sample last week. It wasn't long after this that I noticed the white spots.


Damnit, damnit, damnit.

That photo isn't great, but I still don't think it's infected.

How do you take your hydro samples?

You can check gravity again, and if it's still dropping it might be infected.
If it hasn't changed then I say bottle it up!

Stauffbier said:

That photo isn't great, but I still don't think it's infected.

How do you take your hydro samples?

You can check gravity again, and if it's still dropping it might be infected.
If it hasn't changed then I say bottle it up!

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I use my auto-siphon for a few quick pumps. Don't let any fall back in (if it can be helped). I use Star-San for a sanitizer.

JaySherman said:

I use my auto-siphon for a few quick pumps. Don't let any fall back in (if it can be helped). I use Star-San for a sanitizer.

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I use my auto siphon too, but I plug the end of the cane and pull it up just one time like a syringe. That's usually the perfect amount for the hydro cylinder that I use.

Is there any reason you're sitting on this for so long before bottling?

Stauffbier said:

I use my auto siphon too, but I plug the end of the cane and pull it up just one time like a syringe. That's usually the perfect amount for the hydro cylinder that I use.

Is there any reason you're sitting on this for so long before bottling?

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For about 2 weeks after the brew, I noticed a very strong green apple taste and smell from the primary. I decided to let time mellow it out. I planned to bottle it fairly soon.

JaySherman said:

For about 2 weeks after the brew, I noticed a very strong green apple taste and smell from the primary. I decided to let time mellow it out. I planned to bottle it fairly soon.

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Yeah, get that bad boy bottled up! The green apple will age out in the bottle.

Looks okay, though tough to tell from photo. Gas bubble production (hopefully CO2) is a good sign in this case. If you had a layer of mold or bacterial blanket forming, I doubt you'd see gas bubbles. Like Stauffbier points out - time to bottle. Much safer to age in bottles and avoid the risk of an airlock drying out, etc.

Good luck!
plove

If its white, let it get brite.
If its brown, pour in in the ground.

Your fine, stop buggin out and bottle that sucker!
If you smelt green apple you should of left in in primary longer,
the yeast would have cleaned up after themselves and broken down the Acetaldehyde (green apple)

RDWHAHB!! Seriously, this thread shouldent be 3 pages lol

I have had this before, and mine turned out be little bubble pockets of gas escaping. Hard to tell from pic, but it is a possibility.

Johnnyhitch1 said:

If you smelt green apple you should of left in in primary longer,
the yeast would have cleaned up after themselves and broken down the Acetaldehyde (green apple)

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That's true, but.....
You're going to get acetaldehyde in the bottle too when the yeast start eating the priming sugar, so once fermentation is stable and the beer is fairly clear I say bottle it.

Extended primary/secondary just prolongs things IMO.

Stauffbier said:

That's true, but.....
You're going to get acetaldehyde in the bottle too when the yeast start eating the priming sugar, so once fermentation is stable and the beer is fairly clear I say bottle it.

Extended primary/secondary just prolongs things IMO.

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Once the yeast clean up after primary fermentation the amount of sugar added at bottling time would not be enough to produce detectable off flavors, If this in doubt was the case of a premature primary pull....OLDE PPP!!

Thats pour advice when someones brewing a 10% beer, secondary would give enough time to bulk age (with proper co2 blanket), which IMO is better than bottle conditioning, and smooth out the beer as a whole.

JaySherman said:

Nugget--3 weeks in the primary. This is the second week in the secondary.

Yeast: Wyeast 1056

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It looks Okay to me. Every time I used 1056...that's what my carboys look like too. So clear on top it's kinda spooky.