Immersion coolers, theory vs practice

Just got thru cooling 5 gal wort. Took 1/2 hr to drop temp from 134 deg F to 70 deg F for pitching yeast and had to use ice bath.

My cooler is 20 feet of copper tubing, 5/8" OD / 1/2" ID. Many commercial immersion coolers are 3/8" x 25 feet. Don't know if the 3/8" is OD or ID.

To save money I bought the above larger diameter but shorter copper tubing figuring the cooling ability would be about the same.

The tubing has 6 coils, 8" in diameter and 6.5" tall. I plan to separate the coils to 12" tall to increase surface area contact (I think) with the wort. Can not change diameter as copper will kink.

Questions: Is a 1/2 hr an expected time to drop temp 64 deg? Some post much faster temp drop times.

That's pretty good for 20 feet. Unfortunately the coil length is the single biggest factor after water temp. My chiller is 40' and I can chill the wort to 60' in the winter in about 15-20 min.

Temperature differential between the wort in contact with the chiller and surface area are the largest factors. The temp of your ground water is going to be whatever it is and you can't control that unless you use an ice water recirc system.

The 5/8" tubing will make for a quicker heat exchange than would a 3/8 tube.

The biggest impact you can make will be to swirl the chiller through the wort or circulate the wort around the chiller. Natural convection is rather inefficient and is a major reason for how long it took to cool your wort. Stirring around the chiller, or stirring with the chiller itself will greatly speed the time.

You should be able to drop that time to around 20 minutes depending on your ground water temp.

You need to move the wort around for immersion chillers to be efficient. I had to redo how I cooled my worth since I had to move from draining in the kitchen to draining my chiller in a pond. My hose was 2 feet short so I had to hold it and shoot it into my pond (lol). As crappy as that was, you could really feel the temperature of the waste water rise when my swmbo stirred it (insert inappropriate joke here)

Stirring seems to be the answer. I didn't stir at all for the first 20 min and temp went down very slowly. Stirred last 10 min and temp drop improved. Will separate coils, put in ice bath and stir from the beginning in the next batch. Hopefully wort will cool to 70F in 20 min.

Thanks

I live in El Paso Texas and made a pre chiller. I would freeze this pre chiller over night in a bucket full of water, however I always had problems with cooling the beer down fast. What helped out the most was adding rock salt to the pre chiller, but still not very effective.

As other has said stirring is key to cooling down fast. Also 'especially' if a pre chiller is being used turn the water pressure down so the water passes slower through the colder chiller and has a chance to cool before going to the chiller in the wort. I finally gave up on this and ended up making a new chiller with 1/2 inch copper pipe so i could get more surface area. I also invested on a pump and I can now circulate ice water through the chiller. This has worked the best and I no longer have any problems cooling wort when it is 100 degrees F outside.

If you want to drive home just how important stirring/agitation is, feel the temperature of the water coming out of the cooler after a few minutes of not stirring. Then stir and feel the water again.

Yeah, stirring is pretty key. I'm only down to 30 minutes chilling a 5g batch in my kitchen. That's about as well as I can do.

Separating your coils I don't think will do much. It won't increase the surface area because the coils are still the same size.

Try messing with your flow rate of the water as well. I was going quite slowly at first and it was taking a long time. When I finally opened it right up it definitely helped.

Another option, which I use, is to put your chiller in an Ice bath and run your boiled wort through it. It requires good sanitation, but you can boil it in the wort the same way you would normally.

I can chill to cold in the time it takes to drain the kettle. I end up using about 3-4 bags of ice (natural ice and snow in the winter)

@Northcalais40: I have a friend who does this as well. It is VERY effective.

I used to stir during chilling until a brew buddy admonished me not to--he said, I thought reasonably, that he wanted to leave as much boil crud in the kettle as possible when he racked to the fermenter. Kind of made sense, but my chill time as it stands is like almost an hour. Mayhap I'll switch back.

slothorentropy said:

I used to stir during chilling until a brew buddy admonished me not to--he said, I thought reasonably, that he wanted to leave as much boil crud in the kettle as possible when he racked to the fermenter. Kind of made sense, but my chill time as it stands is like almost an hour. Mayhap I'll switch back.

Click to expand...

After I take the IC out, I give it a good stir so that there's a nice vortex, then I sanitize the lid, put it on the kettle and let it wait for about half an hour to an hour for everything to settle. When I'm ready to transfer I stick the autosiphon in the corner and the wort comes out pretty darn clear, and relatively free of "boil crud".

No idea if the advice relating chill time to protein haze is accurate, but I figure you save time and water anyway. Use the extra time to settle out your wort.

If you have a march/chugger/LG pump you could kill 2 birds with one stone. Install a fitting to create a whirlpool and turn the h20 on. The wort will move across the IC and you'll wind up your break material in the center of your pot.
I just installed one in my Bk and I love it. I circulate the wort while I cool. I'm cooling with a pond pump hooked up to my IC. The pump sits in a large bucket of ice water.

Do a search for the jamil WIC chiller. You use a beer pump to recirculate the wort creating a whirlpool that effectively stirs the wort and dramatically improves the effectiveness of the IC. Or you could use a paddle or paint stirer attached to a drill.

A cheap aquarium immersion pump can also be used to pump ice water through the chiller, that helps a lot when the ground water is warmer than pitching temp.

I cool 5 gallons from boil to 70F using an ice bath and absolutely no stirring, in 25 minutes. Stories like yours are why I have not purchased a chiller yet. I mean I could see it if it would cool in like less than 5 minutes, but otherwise why bother.

I find that incredibly hard to believe based on my experience chilling in ice baths (usually took me anywhere from a few hours to overnight to get down to pitching temps). What kind of kettle are you chilling it in? Lid on or off? Do you continually add ice?

slothorentropy said:

I find that incredibly hard to believe based on my experience chilling in ice baths (usually took me anywhere from a few hours to overnight to get down to pitching temps). What kind of kettle are you chilling it in? Lid on or off? Do you continually add ice?

Click to expand...

I agree. I have been doing partial boils with 3 gallons and keep my water level with the wort and always full of ice and it takes almost double that.

I was looking to buy an IC but might spend a little more and get a plate chiller.

I would have to check on how many feet my emersion chiller is... but i go from boiling to 80 in about 6-7 minutes using hose water.

Some posts made me think of an idea.... could you freeze water bottles into ice blocks and dump them in the wort (after sanitizing of course) to speed up the process of cooling? You wouldn't be adding any more water because the water/ice is contained in the water bottle. I suppose you would have to get the wort down to a lower temp so the plastic wouldn't melt.... any thoughts?

I've heard of people doing that. I've also heard people speculate that it can leach nastiness out of the plastic and affect the overall quality of the beer.

slothorentropy said:

I've heard of people doing that. I've also heard people speculate that it can leach nastiness out of the plastic and affect the overall quality of the beer.

Click to expand...

I was just curious because I realized that hooking up the garden hose outside might be problematic during these Colorado winters.

What kind of kettle are you chilling it in? Lid on or off? Do you continually add ice?

Click to expand...

I use an aluminum kettle from Academy Sports. I place it in a galvanized garbage can and add enough water and ice to go up to the handles. I leave the lid on the kettle...sometimes I leave ice sitting on the lid. I add ice as necessary to replace what melts. I sometimes stir the ice around a bit, but I absolutely never disturb the kettle because I really like the cold break that I get when I don't stir the kettle at all--all the solid material forms clumps that are easy to avoid when siphoning. I don't even use a thermometer anymore, because I know from experience that the wort will be down to 20-23C in about 25 minutes, so I pull it out then and when I siphon it, I can tell it's cool enough because it feels cool through the siphon hose, and the stick-on thermometer of my fermenter says the temperature once the level of the wort gets up that far.

Great advice here. Just realized I am sitting on a water fountain pump a fairly large one. I should be recircing ice water through my IC DUH....

Should freeze up like 15 20 ounce bottles and throw them in a tub with the water and pump, hook it to my IC, run the IC back into that tub.

It is like a 900 gallon an hour one. That seems faster than a hose with 70 degree water.

Takes me 25-30 minutes without stirring to get boiling to 75. Not bad, but pump sounds fast.
woot woot.

I add frozen water bottles when my wort reaches about 85 degrees.During the summer my water temp is 74 degrees. Of course I sanitize the bottles before adding them to the wort.

ImperialStout said:

My cooler is 20 feet of copper tubing, 5/8" OD / 1/2" ID. Many commercial immersion coolers are 3/8" x 25 feet. Don't know if the 3/8" is OD or ID.
faster temp drop times.

Click to expand...

Just because everyone else has given you the main answers I think you're looking for I would like to add that when speaking of TUBING the size is based on INNER DIAMETER and when speaking of PIPE its based on OUTER DIAMETER. I'm pretty sure this is correct but I might be corrected myself.

bernerbrau said:

After I take the IC out, I give it a good stir so that there's a nice vortex, then I sanitize the lid, put it on the kettle and let it wait for about half an hour to an hour for everything to settle. When I'm ready to transfer I stick the autosiphon in the corner and the wort comes out pretty darn clear, and relatively free of "boil crud".

No idea if the advice relating chill time to protein haze is accurate, but I figure you save time and water anyway. Use the extra time to settle out your wort.

Click to expand...

I do the same. Works great.

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G using Home Brew Talk

TheSlash said:

Great advice here. Just realized I am sitting on a water fountain pump a fairly large one. I should be recircing ice water through my IC DUH....

Should freeze up like 15 20 ounce bottles and throw them in a tub with the water and pump, hook it to my IC, run the IC back into that tub.

It is like a 900 gallon an hour one. That seems faster than a hose with 70 degree water.

Takes me 25-30 minutes without stirring to get boiling to 75. Not bad, but pump sounds fast.
woot woot.

Click to expand...

I've been using a $35 sump pump and dropping ~20-30lbs of plus some water in a 5gal pail. I tried the fountain pumps and they didn't have the pressure to push enough water through the 50' coil I've got.

For process, I'll just dispose of a gallon or so of water that was run at the start because putting that back in the ice bath is needlessly heating it. Basically, I'll try to get the output water down to where I can stick my hand in the stream before recirculating all of the water. I'll also give the wort a stir every minute or two.

Time-wise, I've been getting from boil to pitchable in 10-15mins.

Gorth said:

I've been using a $35 sump pump and dropping ~20-30lbs of plus some water in a 5gal pail. I tried the fountain pumps and they didn't have the pressure to push enough water through the 50' coil I've got.

For process, I'll just dispose of a gallon or so of water that was run at the start because putting that back in the ice bath is needlessly heating it. Basically, I'll try to get the output water down to where I can stick my hand in the stream before recirculating all of the water. I'll also give the wort a stir every minute or two.

Time-wise, I've been getting from boil to pitchable in 10-15mins.

Click to expand...

Oops, it is a sump pump, sorry. It was working great as my keg cleaner with hose attachments, but think I can make it double duty now as a ice bath circ.

Thanks, for the idea

Northcalais40 said:

Another option, which I use, is to put your chiller in an Ice bath and run your boiled wort through it. It requires good sanitation, but you can boil it in the wort the same way you would normally.

I can chill to cold in the time it takes to drain the kettle. I end up using about 3-4 bags of ice (natural ice and snow in the winter)

Click to expand...

I have a 25' coil in a 5gal bucket that I fill with ice and 40* salt water I keep in the beerfridge. I gravity feed through it into my fermenter which have in an ice bath (I get all the ice from a machine at work) it enters the Carboy through and aeration tip and its typically around 68* in 15 mins of flame out. I plan on building an immersion soon and eliminate the ice bath part.

On a side note... Whatch those Immersion chillers. I put mine in the other say and forgot that it ha some water in it from a previous batch. The boiling wort heated up the chiller and hot scalding water shot out at me as I was getting ready to hook up the hoses. I got some nasty 2nd and 3rd burns to my foot an leg. Hook the hoses up first or keep the IC clear of water! Thank god no kids or critters where in the path of that thing.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

Diver165 said:

On a side note... Whatch those Immersion chillers. I put mine in the other say and forgot that it ha some water in it from a previous batch. The boiling wort heated up the chiller and hot scalding water shot out at me as I was getting ready to hook up the hoses. I got some nasty 2nd and 3rd burns to my foot an leg. Hook the hoses up first or keep the IC clear of water! Thank god no kids or critters where in the path of that thing.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

Click to expand...

Just did this last weekend....

Had the hoses on it, it was in the boil with about 10 minutes to go when I got something on my hand. Without thinking I turned on the water valve on my brew stand to rinse and the water came out almost boiling on my hand. Fast relexes saved me from burns, but I did stop the boil on my wort!!

Wont do that again. Sorry you had to get burned to learn.

I also just used a ice bath and cooled my wort down to 70F in roughly 20 Min.

I think the big problem when using a ice bath is that it is hard for most to get a large enough volume of cold water to bring down the temp in the pot. I used a pretty large sink filled with Water and 1 22lb bag of Ice. I would guess I had 2-3X the amount of cold water as I had hot Wort.

50' of 3/8" copper tubing cools my wort to 65F in about 15 mins. Groundwater is pretty cold in Canada, probably affects it a lot. Also, keep the coil moving constantly and you'll cut the time in half.

Soma said:

50' of 3/8" copper tubing cools my wort to 65F in about 15 mins. Groundwater is pretty cold in Canada, probably affects it a lot. Also, keep the coil moving constantly and you'll cut the time in half.

Click to expand...

That's what I found too. I did a full boil and used 50' of 3/8" piping to cool it using ground water. Cooled from boiling to pitchable in 15 minutes. I will never go back to an ice bath. If I want to chill it quicker, I will make a pre-chiller to keep in ice water so the water going through my IC is ice cold. That should chill it in less than 10 minutes.

Groundwater temps are critical to cooling time. Using my 25' of 1/2" copper was very fast when brewing in Feb and March of last spring, maybe 10 minues to pitching temps. It took quite a bit longer on my last 2 brews in September since our water is so much warmer. I would guess 20 minutes to 75 and then another 10 minutes to get the last 10 F. In the fall I need an ice water bath surrounding the boil kettle to get that last 10 degrees.

Chill to 100 using your standard IC setup. Then recirculate ice water to get to your desired temp. Requires a sump pump or a pond pump. Around 80 bucks for Home Depot's bargain sump pump. Not cheap, but the difference in time is astounding when you're recirculating ice water through your IC.

Ok, I'm from Houston and rarely can get my wort down to 70 with my IC and ground water. I typically stop at 80 degrees. I haven't had problems with the fermentation not starting. Typically I use liquid yeast but did use a dry on a Pumpkin Ale this weekend with no problems getting the fermentation started. Is dropping to 70 just a safeguard for the yeast or is there some other reason? I'd appreciate some education here. I've only extract brewed but am learning a ton from this site about all grain....

BrentJ said:

Ok, I'm from Houston and rarely can get my wort down to 70 with my IC and ground water. I typically stop at 80 degrees. I haven't had problems with the fermentation not starting. Typically I use liquid yeast but did use a dry on a Pumpkin Ale this weekend with no problems getting the fermentation started. Is dropping to 70 just a safeguard for the yeast or is there some other reason? I'd appreciate some education here. I've only extract brewed but am learning a ton from this site about all grain....

Click to expand...

Well, the higher the temp the faster and easier fermentation is. It also produces less cleaner flavors with most yeasts the higher you go.

Mine I pitched at 70-73 area always started visible fermentation in mere hours. 3-5.

Once I started dropping the wort to 60 in the fridge and pitching, it started to take 12-24 hours. I see a lot of people pitch between 70 and 80, but they all seem to have a way to keep the wort temp down during the first big 3-5 day window.

remember if sanitation is good, you don't have to aerate and pitch your yeast right away. A lot of people let it sit a few hours, and some a few days!! I don't have the balls for that yet, but I have let the last 2 sit about 5-6 hours in the ferm chamber to cool.

As the yeast go through their reproduction phase after pitching, the temperature of their environment has a direct effect on the byproducts that are produced. I typically want to be in the lower side of the yeasts fermentation range for at least the first 36-48 hours. Less unwanted flavors for the yeast to clean up later.

You'll make beer either way, but try a batch where you take the time to cool to the low side. Can you submerge your boil kettle in a sink of ice water and keep adding ice? Circulate the ice water and provide some circulation within the kettle. Easier living up north I know, but then again we have to deal with 4-5 months of that white stuff.

I use a 25 foot pre-chiller in a bucket in the sink. Once the ground water stops working I put ice water in the bucket to bring it down the rest of the way. Keep a high flow rate and *gently* stir the wort for best chilling.

+1 stirring.

I have a 50' 1/2 '' immersion chiller and I stir mine here and there when chilling 11G of wort. It takes me 12 minutes to get to 75F 15 to get to ~65F.