Need to solve foamy First Pour for converted chest freezer kegerator

Hey guys, I am tired of pouring out my first pour that comes out foamy and have finally decided to do something about it. This happens with both commercial kegs and corny keg homebrews. I plan on adding an EvaDry E500 dehumidifier to combine with a fan to circulate the air better. I created the same kegerator as many have on this forum a couple years ago with the wood collar etc, but am guessing that because of poor insulation from the wood the upper half of the kegerator's air is warmer than the bottom. Seems like the best thing to do from reading posts would be to get a fan to circulate the air better.

Exactly what fan should I get? I have read of people using both AC powered fans as well as computer fans, but what do people prefer and what is safest to have in a potentially humid environment? Again I will be getting that Evadry to help with the humidity but still want to make sure I'm not risking any kind of electrical issue with the fan in there.

This seems decent but I have no idea how it would survive in the kegerator.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009OXMZ3Y/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Also is there anything else that people recommend to help solve the common problem of the first pour being foamy, and then every one after being fine? I also read in one place that longer lines can help that, I currently have 5 foot lines.

Any additional tips would be much appreciated!

-Mike

I use 10 ft lines and dont have foam.

Maybe try one longer line to see if that is it

I'd use a fan, and probably look at longer beer lines as well. I use a small squirrel cage DC fan with an AC adapter I purchased at American Science and Surplus. You can get fans and match them with AC Adapters there.

Also try making sure the cold gets up into your tower somehow -- either with a fan or copper pipe or something that will get the cold air up into your tower.

10-12 ft lines will likely help a lot, assuming your reg is set around the usual 10-12 PSI.

Maybe it's just me but I don't think humidity will be a problem. Save the money there.

I'd start by lengthening your lines. I have 10 foot lines and typically keep my kegs between 10-15 PSI depending on the style.

I'm actually considering chopping a little length off my lines because it comes out so slow that I don't typically end up with much head. Whereas my buddy who has slightly shorter lines can pour my same beer with great head.

I know, I mentioned head too many times. Let the jokes begin.

b-boy said:

I'd use a fan, and probably look at longer beer lines as well. I use a small squirrel cage DC fan with an AC adapter I purchased at American Science and Surplus. You can get fans and match them with AC Adapters there.

Click to expand...

Thanks do you ever worry about condensation getting into the fan causing a short or anything?

A lot of you said longer lines which I will definitely try. But I still need to solve the problem of the warm beer lines at the top of the kegerator in the area where the wood collar is. Has anyone used the fan in the link that I listed above?

You might want to try to put some foam insulation inside on the collar. That bare wood will make that keezer pretty inefficient

If it's just the first pour and the rest are fine, you are probably right that it is just a temp issue. Insulating the collar would make it more efficient, but you'll need air circulation to keep the top and bottom close to the same temp.

Since this looks to be in a main room in your house, you might want to shop around for a quieter fan though. That one says 40 dba. You can find quite computer fans that are about half that.

Some recommendations:

1.) Consider wrapping insulation around the last foot or so of line as it connects to the shank. Forget about a fan since you do not appear to have a tower. If you pull two pull two pints one right after the other, are they both foamy, or just the first? If it's just the first pint that's foamy, then longer lines really won't help. If both are foamy, then your system is not balanced, and you will need to add resistance, which is most easily accomplished by 10-12 ft of 3/16" bev line. If it's just the first pint, then this indicates that the beer is the line has warmed and the CO2 has come out of solution, or has been idle in the line for some time. Wrapping insulation around it, line home plumbing wrap, may solve the problem on its own.
2.) Insulate the collar. Consider that hard backed foam building insulation material and liquid nails adhesive. This is your next move if #1 doesn't fix the problem.
3.) Consider a longer beer shank. More mass will help keep the beer in the shank and faucet cold. And while you're at it, dump the chrome plated shank and buy stainless. I would avoid the shank with integrated barb. In fact I hate barbs and prefer flare nut fittings. Easier to make changes.

I'm sure you already verified the pressure your regulator is set at is correct.

Good luck

TD

Copper tubing works for me

+1 on pretty much all that was said, except insulating the last foot of line. That should be exposed to the cold air inside not the warmer outside, through the shank/collar. A fan may help to move the cold air to the top after insulating that collar.

Do you know what's causing the high humidity in the keezer? Any large air leaks?
Is there only one keg and a CO2 tank in there? That's not a lot of total mass to keep things cool and stable. But there's a lot of damp air volume.

TrickyDick said:

Some recommendations:

If you pull two pull two pints one right after the other, are they both foamy, or just the first? If it's just the first pint, then this indicates that the beer is the line has warmed and the CO2 has come out of solution, or has been idle in the line for some time. Wrapping insulation around it, line home plumbing wrap, may solve the problem on its own.

TD

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It is only the first glass, yes. The first pint is foamy and then directly after the first one, I can fill up as many glasses I want with a perfect pour.

I do also plan on insulating the collar as you and many others recommended.

IslandLizard said:

Do you know what's causing the high humidity in the keezer? Any large air leaks?
Is there only one keg and a CO2 tank in there? That's not a lot of total mass to keep things cool and stable. But there's a lot of damp air volume.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that I have too high of humidity in the keezer. I do see water beads on the side and it will collect a little water in the bottom that I wipe out every 6 months. I was more thinking of getting the dehumidifier to keep moisture from getting into the fan if I get one. By adding that I also hope to solve having to wipe it out every 6 months as well. You are correct though, there is only one 5 gallon keg and one CO2 tank in that large keezer (so far).

Would that dehumidifier be placed inside the keezer? Sounds like overkill, plus it adds heat from the compressor and coil.

If you use a 12V computer fan moisture is no problem, and it's a safe voltage. Even a squirrel cage one should last a long time, except the metal from the motor may get rusty.

All freezers form ice inside and in keezers it melts. I would wipe it out with a rag or sponge with some bleach, maybe every few weeks.

Another thing to consider is how you are regulating the keezer temp. If your probe is measuring beer temp, then you won't cycle on the cooling very often and will usually have warmer air than beer. The beer in the line will warm much faster than the keg, due to that.

IslandLizard said:

Would that dehumidifier be placed inside the keezer? Sounds like overkill, plus it adds heat from the compressor and coil.

If you use a 12V computer fan moisture is no problem, and it's a safe voltage. Even a squirrel cage one should last a long time, except the metal from the motor may get rusty.

All freezers form ice inside and in keezers it melts. I would wipe it out with a rag or sponge with some bleach, maybe every few weeks.

Click to expand...

I found this fan that I think will work perfect. What do you recommend for the safest way to power this thing?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026ZPFDE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

A quick and easy fix may be to make sure that as much of your beer line as possible is near the bottom of the freezer. If only a foot or so of beer in the line gets warmer you might get a little more head on the first pour but a drinkable pint.

This is the fan I currently have in mine. Previously I had a similar cheap 4" fan I bought at Target as well. Ran non-stop for about 4 years with no problems. It finally seized up last time I shut down the kegerator for a bit of reconfiguring.

I'm all for pre-assembled 120V fans that are ready to go. I just cut the cord and solder on a longer one to reach the outlet outside my kegerator.

mikewildt said:

I found this fan that I think will work perfect. What do you recommend for the safest way to power this thing?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026ZPFDE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Click to expand...

One of these will do the job - and it's wicked cheap. I use these to power my stir plates.

I would never put a 110VAC device inside the keezer with the kegs. Wet and AC are not a smart mix...

Cheers!

lombard said:

This is the fan I currently have in mine.

I'm all for pre-assembled 120V fans that are ready to go. I just cut the cord and solder on a longer one to reach the outlet outside my kegerator.

Click to expand...

Are those safe inside the kegerator with all the moisture etc?

mikewildt said:

Are those safe inside the kegerator with all the moisture etc?

Click to expand...

I've been running them for years without a problem. What, exactly, are your concerns? Fire? Shock?

lombard said:

I've been running them for years without a problem. What, exactly, are your concerns? Fire? Shock?

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Yeah I just don't know if the moisture can short it or something causing a spark or fire near the outlet?

I have the same problem. The first pint is very foamy. The second goes pretty well. I find that I end up wasting a lot of beer as a result. I may try longer lines. If I release the pressure in the keg before I pour, the first pint is comes out much better. Curious if the OP figured out a solution.

mikewildt said:

Yeah I just don't know if the moisture can short it or something causing a spark or fire near the outlet?

Click to expand...

Well, moisture and electricity generally don't mix. But I'd imagine the only short you could get is from one of the live circuit connections in the fan to the metallic surface inside the keezer. Not much flammable in there. I don't see how you could get a short outside the keezer.

Just my humble opinion...no guarantees.