ha! i hadn't considered this possibility: we done got trolled by the TTB!I am a mod on other forums, and occasionally you'll get agents posting leading questions seeing what kind of responses they get. Just a heads up. ipe:
ha! i hadn't considered this possibility: we done got trolled by the TTB!I am a mod on other forums, and occasionally you'll get agents posting leading questions seeing what kind of responses they get. Just a heads up. ipe:
I am a mod on other forums, and occasionally you'll get agents posting leading questions seeing what kind of responses they get. Just a heads up. ipe:
Thats a dangerous attitude to propagate in the Homebrew community IMHO.
When federal authorities don't have the resources to enforce certain activities, and they think those activities are becoming a problem, they just out law it completely.
I don't know if it's dangerous or not.....it is certainly common sense. If you look at homebrew law throughout the country over the last decade it has become less and less restrictive across all states. IMHO the reason why is because people are realizing that homebrewers are by and large law abiding people. The laws they might be "breaking" are antiquated and don't serve a whole lot of purpose. I don't need to look any further than CA. For decades homebrewers have been donating homebrew to non profit events....it was technically illegal but was never enforced. That is until last year. So what happened? A bunch of homebrewers/homewinemakers got together and had the state law changed. It's now legal to donate homebrew to a charity event and they can sell it...heck you can even advertise that you are. So by the ABC enforcing a little known law it raised awareness and the law was changed. That seems like how most laws pertaining to homebrew are changed.
I don't know if it's dangerous or not.....it is certainly common sense. If you look at homebrew law throughout the country over the last decade it has become less and less restrictive across all states. IMHO the reason why is because people are realizing that homebrewers are by and large law abiding people. The laws they might be "breaking" are antiquated and don't serve a whole lot of purpose. I don't need to look any further than CA. For decades homebrewers have been donating homebrew to non profit events....it was technically illegal but was never enforced. That is until last year. So what happened? A bunch of homebrewers/homewinemakers got together and had the state law changed. It's now legal to donate homebrew to a charity event and they can sell it...heck you can even advertise that you are. So by the ABC enforcing a little known law it raised awareness and the law was changed. That seems like how most laws pertaining to homebrew are changed.
I know the CA law intimately. The new law was well intended, and they're rectifying the situation. To be specific, our own club has been shut out of non-profit events for several years now, and the new law was an effort to rectify that situation.
It's not exactly like you portray it. Non-profits frequently have endowments, and thus attorneys, who the last few years have been informing them that selling homebrew was against the law. The new law meant to legalize that for legitimate 501c3s.
To avoid people like the OP setting up a 501c3 merely to get around the licensing laws, it excluded 501c3s formed specifically for beer/brewing purposes, and that inadvertently excluded the homebrew association, thus cancelling SCHF. I went to several of the meetings the CHA held on the topic prior to cancelling the event.
I've discussed this before on another thread of this nature..was it with you? It's important to make sure you represent what's going on with that law accurately, and in regards to if that attitude is dangerous? Well I guess that depends on if you value your freedom to homebrew. Because people trying to get around the laws, and propagating "don't ask permission, just keep it on the DL" attitudes, are jeapordizing that freedom. Do not underestimate the federal governments desire to be obeyed. Tommy Chong knows it first hand.
By anybody condoning illegal behavior, they are breaking the rules of participation in our forum. Please remember our forum rules when formulating your response to queries and sharing your thoughts!
Jbay....not to change the subject but do you know anything about the current AB that will allow the CHA and AHA to host festivals again? Looking at the minutes one of my reservations is that only "members" can participate? Am I reading that right? I don't see how a homebrew club will be able to have a festival/event if they only invite their members. You are asking members to pay for a club membership, buy an event ticket, AND provide all the beer. At the non profit charity events that I have donated beer to I have at least received free entry into the event.
Jbay....not to change the subject but do you know anything about the current AB that will allow the CHA and AHA to host festivals again? Looking at the minutes one of my reservations is that only "members" can participate? Am I reading that right? I don't see how a homebrew club will be able to have a festival/event if they only invite their members. You are asking members to pay for a club membership, buy an event ticket, AND provide all the beer. At the non profit charity events that I have donated beer to I have at least received free entry into the event.
Maybe California works that way. Not in most states.
If you recall, homebrewing was JUST made legal in all 50 states, although some states restrict production to far less than the federal limit (60 gallons per household in some states), and in some states it's totally illegal to take your homebrew out of your "home" to your own cottage/boat/campsite.
Some counties in Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, KY, TN, etc are still totally "dry" counties.
Maybe where you live it's ok to ignore a law until it gets changed to suit you, but it's not something that is the reality for the rest of the Americans who don't live in such a liberal state that is homebrewing and brewing friendly.
By anybody condoning illegal behavior, they are breaking the rules of participation in our forum. Please remember our forum rules when formulating your response to queries and sharing your thoughts!
The bill has passed it's first committee 18-0, next is appropriations, then, if I'm not mistaken it will go to the senate floor. Given the narrow focus on the bill and the widespread support it had on the Government Organization Committee, there seems to be optimism it will pass the appropriations (it's not going to cost anything and that's generally what they're concerned with) and will pass on the floor.
The fact they were asking for people to buy memberships in order to gain entrance what why it was deemed as "selling". The fact that they ask people to donate beer yet still charge them is more of a pr thing and every non-profit has to make those decisions. I'm on the executive board of a local school district non-profit, and we don't give free golf tourney entrances to our contributors unless their contribution exceeds a certain amount. Given the throngs that want to brew (we won the BRO contest last year...Santa Barbeerians!!!) and bring it to this festival, I doubt free entrances to the beer donors is ever going to be in the cards.
http://arc.asm.ca.gov/member/AD42/?p=article&id=257504
Press release on the new bill.
Edit: I just reread your post, and I'm not sure what exactly you're asking me, or how exactly to answer regarding homebrew clubs. Most homebrew clubs are not 501c3s so I don't think these laws really change anything for them. But you are certainly referring to an area of the law that's subject to interpretation, so if anyone online asked me what I thought of that I'd probably refer them to an attorney...maybe there's one on the club already?
Jbay....I have done a little investigating and while it's not the norm there are quite a few 501c3 homebrew clubs (legal non-profits). If this law is passed someone could form a non profit called the Santa Barbara Homebrewers Assoc. and legally sell their beer 2x a year at their own festival. Of course all money raised would have to go back to the non-profit. In the case of a homebrewing club it could go towards brewing equipment and supplies. It will be very interesting to see how this bill goes forward and any changes that are made to it.
Jbay....I have done a little investigating and while it's not the norm there are quite a few 501c3 homebrew clubs (legal non-profits). If this law is passed someone could form a non profit called the Santa Barbara Homebrewers Assoc. and legally sell their beer 2x a year at their own festival. Of course all money raised would have to go back to the non-profit. In the case of a homebrewing club it could go towards brewing equipment and supplies. It will be very interesting to see how this bill goes forward and any changes that are made to it.
Yeah it should be interesting. But I know this is a "cleanup" bill, and in the past, both fed and state governments have been willing to be VERY specific, going so far as to name the charity associations they're clearing with the bill. But like you said, it will be interesting....
Well I hope the AHA and CHA are not allowed special rights that other non profit brewing groups don't enjoy. Don't get get me wrong...there is nothing more that I want to see than the return of the SCHF and the NHC to San Diego. However it just isn't fair that some groups are allowed a privilege and other similar groups are not.
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