hop pellets

hey everyone

just read in another post that hop pellets usually settle in trub and don't contaminate wort. so on to my question,

getting ready to brew another batch and have misplaced/lost my strainer. is it ok to dump all the wort (including hop pellets) into fermenter?

Dumping everything into the primary shouldn't be a problem but isn't really ideal. My brother dumps everything in and makes fine beer.

I usually whirlpool the cooled bitter wort in the brew kettle then rack (siphon) it into the primary to leave behind most of the hops, trub, cold break, etc.

I always leave it all in, even whole grains i put them in a blender give them a couple of short swirls and drop them in the wort, then after boiling and cooling i pour everything in the primary without any filtering stage, then i siphon it all into glass carboy secondary after a week or two depending on the yeast, everything eventually clears out with time in the fermenters.

I want to get the best i can get as far as flavor is concerned.
But thats just me...

I have never heard of leaving the 'spent' grains in the primary. I don't think I would end up with much beer if I put my 4-8 lbs. (partial mash) of grain in the primary with everything else. I would be afraid of the reduced space for krausen.

Do grains add much in the way of flavor after they have been mashed for 30 - 60 minutes, and the primary is between 65 and 75 *F?

Yeah, grains in the primary sounds pretty shady. If you boil them you'll extract tannins that impart an astringent taste. If you do not boil them there's a definite infection risk as they were never sanitized.

Either way I doubt they are adding much flavor in the primary.

I must precise i never really follow recipes...
I just take a handful of chocolate, or Dark crystal or whatever i can get my hands on malt grains, put them in the blender (shortly) then in the wort which will boil of course.

The rest of my malt comes from syrup extracts.

The grain is used to add flavor to the whole thing.

Then the hops pellets are thrown in the soup as well, then out to the primary after cooling the stainless steel has been cooled in the kitchen sink.

Then after a week or so, i transfer to secondary (glass carboy) for usually two weeks and by the time i'm ready to bottle, all the junk from the grain shells and such has piled on the bottom of the carboy.

Gives me pretty decent results so far.

But... I also tried this method, i take a second stainless pot, put the grains in the blender again, then into a stainless strainer into the pot with water up to strainer level... then boil it (near boil actually) down for about 20 minutes... remove the strainer and throw the grains in the garbage and pour the resulting juice in the wort.

of course this gives a more "clear" profile which takes less time to clear out.

both methods work fine, but putting them all in the wort without the strainer method takes more time to clear but with added flavour.

boiling grains isn't advised. You leach tannins. You might wanna try simmering them at 150-160 for 30 minutes then straining the liquid into your brew pot, and possibly "sparging" the grains with some hot water to get more out. Give it a try and see how a beer turns out with that method, if u want that is
-John

strider said:

boiling grains isn't advised. You leach tannins. You might wanna try simmering them at 150-160 for 30 minutes then straining the liquid into your brew pot, and possibly "sparging" the grains with some hot water to get more out. Give it a try and see how a beer turns out with that method, if u want that is
-John

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Well sorry but this is what i meant, i don't really boil them, just was lacking the proper term to describe what i actually do.

Then i refill the pot and give them a second "simmering" run.

But i have also tried the grains right in the wort, just took a little more time to clear out, but i didnt see much of a difference as far as taste was concerned, just a little more strong tasting in the end i'd say.

But hey... im no pro... just trying many different things here.

You should NEVER boil grain.

carnevoodoo said:

You should NEVER boil grain.

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Why?
I don't mean to argue or anything here, but i don't see why it could hurt the flavor that much?

After all, isn't Home brew also a fine place for experimenting?

So far i have yet to taste one of my home brew batch that i didn't enjoy to the last drop so i must be doing something right.

Stef1966 said:

Why?
I don't mean to argue or anything here, but i don't see why it could hurt the flavor that much?

After all, isn't Home brew also a fine place for experimenting?

So far i have yet to taste one of my home brew batch that i didn't enjoy to the last drop so i must be doing something right.

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Sure, experimenting is fine. Boiling grains is usually a very bad idea. It leaches tannins from the husks and causes astringency (like sucking on tea bags). If you add unboiled grains to the fermenter, though, you're likely to get a lactobacillus infection, as grains are loaded with lacto bacteria. The best practice is to steep the grains (keeping under 170 degrees, as to avoid the aforementioned tannins) and then remove them and boil the resulting wort. That kills any lacto bacteria, so that your added yeast can ferment the somewhat sanitized wort.

I believe the topic in this thread is hop pellets and whether to leave them in the fermenter or not. If there are any further questions on grains, please feel free to start a new thread.

Thanks for the tips, i will try that next batch.

Getting back to the hop pellet question, it seems that the most common reason people strain them out while putting the wort in the fermenter is then they have to deal with hop residue when it's racking time. I solve this by tying a hop bag to the intake of my autosiphon (sanitized, of course). Really, it's up to you. Leaving the hops in the fermenter is not inherently good or bad.

I don't siphon my wort into the primary, I dump it. I use plastic pails for primary fermentors. I use four large file clips (the black ones with the little shiny handles) to affix a grain bag over the fermentor. Works great, filters out everything I don't want in the primary including hop residue. I still don't pour the nastiest part of the wort onto the grain bag. Just dump it.

If you use a carboy for a primary, whether it be glass or plastic, I would suggest you get a funnel. I think they make strainers for funnels that fit perfect. Saves time instead of siphoning.

One downside to leaving the hops trub in the fermenter is that you are exposing your wort to those hops for a very long journey.

Not necessarily a problem if you’re brewing a rather hoppy beer, but if you’re doing something light with little to no hop presence, the beer could be out of balance.

I am still trying out different techniques, and for my current batch I decided to just dump the unfiltered wort into the carboy and see if a long primary could clear it up. It's supposed to be an English bitter anyway, so I don't mind the hop residues hanging around.

So far (about 4 days in), it appears to be the dirtiest batch I've ever made. Lots of crud sticking to the sides, and little yeasty bits floating at the top or being swirled around by the fermentation. I am guessing that any combination of the following factors could be at play, but I am open to other suggestions.

(1) The wort was unfiltered.
(2) The beer is light in color, so I am seeing more than I usually would.
(3) It's the first time I've added Irish moss to the boil, so I may not be used to seeing that in the fermenter.

Unless your recipe calls for dry hopping most of the taste and aroma from the hops will be sufficiently added in the boil. There really is no need to keep it in the fermenter for taste. Additionally, filtering the wort while you pour it in the fermenter helps to aerate your wort to keep your yeasties happy! I say filter it. It will be a nice crisp clear beer and it wont affect the taste.

RobbyBeers said:

...I am open to other suggestions.
...

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Four days in and your wort is supposed to look like a liquid dust storm.

I would leave that beer alone for a good 2 weeks. Three would be better.

Eventually it will all settle out once the yeast is done dancing around and churning things up.

It's the size of these chunkies that is disturbing. Is that the moss?

I siphoned everything (except the nastiest) into the carboy a week ago with a light wheat and I saw exactly what you're describing with lots of larger looking things swirling around in there. I think it mostly the hot and cold material as I didn't filter it out. I thought it was pretty cool to see as I have always filtered when dumping into the primary as well as all my previous beers were darker in color. The stuff is all settling out now.

kcstrom

BierMuncher said:

Not necessarily a problem if you’re brewing a rather hoppy beer, but if you’re doing something light with little to no hop presence, the beer could be out of balance.

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Sorry to chime in midthread but I had a funnel clog on me so I dumped
the whole hop pellet mess into my carboy in an APA. It tastes very
bitter 2.5 weeks in. I'm RDWHAHB all up in it.

Just wondering if leaving 2 oz 5% bitterng and 1 oz 5% finishing left in
the primary could cause all kinds of hop bitterness. It's a lingering bitter
for 10 or so seconds, not so much astringent.

I was hoping that the alpha acids wouldn't go into solution due to the
temp being so low in the carboy.

I have a question along these lines. I am near bottling time and the dry hop pellet material is floating on top of the beer in the carboy. Does anybody filter beer into the bottling bucket? Or how do you handle this?

HungPole said:

I have a question along these lines. I am near bottling time and the dry hop pellet material is floating on top of the beer in the carboy. Does anybody filter beer into the bottling bucket? Or how do you handle this?

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Wrap a 1-gallon paint strainer around the cane end of your racking cane. fasten it with a zip tie.

Thanks for great advice - and I appreciate the pictures.

+1 on Mr. Muncher's advice. Just be sure to sanitize the strainer/ziptie along with your racking cane or autosiphon.

Vic_Sinclair said:

+1 on Mr. Muncher's advice. Just be sure to sanitize the strainer/ziptie along with your racking cane or autosiphon.

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Thanks Vic from SLC

I've been filtering the end of my siphon with a hop bag and butchers twine (mostly because that's what I had). I am very happy with the results. Thanks for the idea.

im lazy, and suck at racking, so i use buckets/spigots. the crap is left at the bottom of the bucket, and you can cold crash the bottling bucket even after the dextrose is added at or below 30* for a week.. iahve done this, and never have to rack again (im gonna break my racking cane in defiance) with a cane and get all the nasty crap in your bottles. even a bag lets alotta crap through IMHE, BUT IS certainly BETTER THAN NOTHING!
of course, also IMHE, whole hops elimate this problem, but create a storage problem for sure!

nosmatt: Purchase an autosiphon and a racking master you will become.

at $10-15 dollars for an auto-siphon, there's no excuse for fiddling around with a plain old racking cane..what a pain that is!

I have a problem with hops and hot break material as well. I just siphon most of it from kettle to fermenter, until I have most of my volume, then leave the rest behind. I have heard lots of folks talk about whirlpooling it to the center. I have not had any success doing so. I guess I would have to pull the chiller out, whirlpool , and then wait for it to settle. How long does one wait?